Author Topic: AH2 has a "Fighter Only" arena? (Read 2347 times)

Mugzeee · « **Reply #75 on:** June 13, 2004, 08:46:44 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by MoRphEuS
A1-A2

It is the unsaid FFA area in the DA.

Mugz I like your Idea. I just dont think anyone would use this arena. I like the MA. I like it the way it is right now. As far as the fights go! Sure some nights its hard to find a good fight but thats not the case always. I think this new arena would detract from most if not all MA fighting and what you would be left with it a bunch of guys on all sides trying to stay as far away from one another as posible while they capture bases.

Well actually you have addressed you own questions/answers.
Yeah. I think it would get used more than the Da and more than the CT.

"I just dont think anyone would use this arena."
"I think this new arena would detract from most if not all MA fighting"
Morph you are confusing me as to what you think. Or maybe you are confused. So i have to guess that you are actually unsure if it will get used.
The more we discuss the idea the more i become certian that it will indeed draw more players from the MA than the DA and the CT combined.

"what you would be left with it a bunch of guys on all sides trying to stay as far away from one another as possible while they capture bases.

This goes completly against the natural instinct of any competitive person. And 99.9% of all players are competitive by nature. The "Base Grabbers" are grabbing bases to win the War. They are playing the War Sim. When another country begins to be a clear threat to win the war, the other two countries always attack them to try to keep them from winning. Presto...the fights are born. This is exactly what happens currently. Honestly, I don’t know why this is so hard to understand. There was a Fighter Town in Airwarrior and a very substantial percentage of the player base lived in AW FT as compared to AH CT or DA. There were usually from 20 to 50 players in AW FT while the Main arena's (There were 2 of them) ETO (European Theater of Operations) and the Big Pac (Bic Pacific) usually had a 400 player max capacity combined, with usually only 180 to 280 players in attendance Combined. This puts 15 to 20% of the total player base in the Fighter Town. I just looked in the Aces High MA, CT and DA as I am typing this reply Sunday June 13 9:04 PM est. MA has 320 The Beta has 120 players the CT has 11 and the DA has 1 player. Asuming that most of the beta players would be in the MA. This would calculate to roughly a wee tad over 3% of the total players online are utilizing the CT and DA collectively as I am typing this reply. As far as i can tell. HTC is wasting money on the Bandwidth it takes to keep the CT and the DA running as compared to the usage it is getting.
Many guys in AW would fly a few nights a week in FT to brush up on fighting and just enjoy the change of pace grinding it out and not worrying about bases being lost. This kept the fights in the sky not on the ground. This isn’t anything new. It just would be new for AH. And it was used in AW much more than the CT or DA is used in AH.
Yes I do think it would get much more usage than HTC current CT and DA...As i also think it would actually be a better move for HTC were as economy is concerned.
Gooday mate

Morpheus · « **Reply #76 on:** June 13, 2004, 11:30:54 PM »

Basicly Mugz... And I am going to put this as simple as posible here. I like the MA the way it is. I dont think we need another arena. I like to do many things while I am on line. Take a base once in a while, fly fighters, fly Jabos, do some GV stuff and even fly bombers still. After all Bombers are what I started out with here for the most part.

Frankly I dont like the idea of having to jump between arenas when I can do it all for the most part in the MA we have now. Not that I would. I honestly wouldnt use this Fighter Arena even if HT did give it to us. If I want a 1v1 I go to the DA. If I want a free for all I go to the MA. Simple as that.

Saying it would get used more than the DA or CT even is really just speculation. But thats all one can do at this point. But I doubt it would be the case where you would see it be used more than the DA or even the CT. Dont get me wrong. The concept is a good one. But the people IMHO want many many bad guys to shoot at and they really dont care what these bad guys are trying to do for the most part. A red guy is a red guy. A land grabber is no different to me than someone who is just out to fight in that they can and do shoot back (for the most part) and I can do the same.

I should have cut to the Chase before... But I will now. I wouldnt use this Fighter Arena you want just because I enjoy bouncing missions, deffending bases and also attacking them. Sometimes I am out for just a fight. But for the most part it is born from the fact that I am either attacking or deffending. What would there be left to defend or attack with out base captures for me? Not much besides the fact i'd have to defend myself and attack the other guy. So Im not confused, and dont confuse what I am saying with something else. Its really just that simple and needs no reading into.

Morpheus · « **Reply #77 on:** June 13, 2004, 11:48:45 PM »

Quote

So i have to guess that you are actually unsure if it will get used.

Almost positive it wouldn't get the usage you are thinking.

Quote

The more we discuss the idea the more i become certian that it will indeed draw more players from the MA than the DA and the CT combined.

I really doubt you'd see a large number of players from the MA heading in there. They are in the MA because they enjoy the enviorment. They can do anything they wish at will. AND wouldnt need to change arenas if they wanted to take a base after they got done flying a fighter.

As far as the DA goes. People are in there because they want to fight it out or learn. The numbers in the DA are next to nil.... As of lately. So the gains from the DA would be just that... Next to nothing. The vast majority of those who use the DA are doing so to improve their 1v1 fighter skills. If what you speak of is an FFA enviorment, this would not apeal to them what so ever.

The CT... Well most in there enjoy the limited plane set. And more so the historical aspect of the CT itself is what brings most in there to begin with. So again, I highly doubt you'd gain many from there either.

So what we have left is the occasional guy who is tired of the MA once in a while and figures he'll try out the Fighter Arena. I doubt there'd be many doing this because if one thinks about it, there really isnt much you can get bored with in the MA. Fighters, Jabos, Bombers, GV's, CV's... The list can go on and on.

Quote

As far as i can tell. HTC is wasting money on the Bandwidth it takes to keep the CT and the DA running as compared to the usage it is getting.

Well thats awful naive of you to say this Mugz. Honestly, people use this two arens for an entirely different purpose than they do with the MA. The CT is a more historical (as I said before) laid back if you will setting. People use it, but it surely doesnt get used more than the MA. Thats just a fact. Although I disagree again with your idea of taking it out of the game.

The DA offers many things to many players. You can practice just about ALL things ACM and alike. You can settle feuds or just go in there to have fun. And lastly you can go in there and head to A1 and A2 as most already do and enjoy a great little FFA battle. So the DA is a GREAT change of pace from the MA if a change of pace is what you are looking for.

Morpheus · « **Reply #78 on:** June 13, 2004, 11:59:55 PM »

You know what... I just notice the title of this thread is really a question. Shows how much I over look things at time.

Why?

I mean why would you entitle this thread as a question?

Could it be because many who are in there right now get upset with fuel porking? I say this becaues I've seen it happen.(Players getting upset because others want to play strat games) OR could it be because players in there right now get upset because you guys are in there taking bases?

Just asking Mugz. Im curious really though what EXACTLY brought this idea of yours on. Not just because of a few guys not liking land grabbers I am almost certain of that. I think there is more and I'm anxious now to find out.

Let me tell ya something you probably already know. Once AH1 dies, the MA we have now in AH1 will be a mirror image to that of what we will have in AH2. This I know for a fact. Humans are creatures of habbit. The habbits we have aquiered in the game will only carry over to AH2. We are always going to have land grabbers, always going to have furballers, always going to have fight wrecking fuel porkers. (thought I'd slip that last one one in there

) I enjoy to contradict myself, it gives you something to quote. lol

The MA you know and LOVE is coming to AH2 soon Mugz. Fear not.

I hope you are reading ALL of what I wrote. This way there can be no "confusion".

Ok I'm done for now

Quote away bud

CHEERS!
Morph:D

DipStick · « **Reply #79 on:** June 14, 2004, 12:00:07 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Morpheus
If it were used, I think this new arena would detract from most if not all MA fighting what you would be left with, if it were used, is a bunch of guys on all sides trying to stay as far away from one another as possible while they capture bases.

Think he just left out the "if it were used" part.

Quote

Originally posted by Mugzeee
As far as i can tell. HTC is wasting money on the Bandwidth it takes to keep the CT and the DA running as compared to the usage it is getting.

I'm pretty sure HTC knows what he is doing and doesn't require your advice. The CT is exclusively for certain (historical) plane matchups, it suffers from a limited planeset, the DA is for practice period. The MA is where the most targets can be found so naturally fighters will go there.

We attempt to create good furballs in the MA between bases in close proximity or CV to bases as the case may be. All the 'war winning' stuff is ignored.

Plain and simple I doubt HT wants to split up the players as you suggest (although I don't and wouldn't try to speak for him). The beauty of this game is the large amount of players in one arena and the fact that it works well as far as lag, text chat, voice, etc... goes. IMHO.

In closing, put me down for a NO vote.

Morpheus · « **Reply #80 on:** June 14, 2004, 12:06:01 AM »

Dipstick you are my new Hero I think.

Shhhhh Dont tell Wadke I said that

It took me 3 whole in depth posts to say the same thing you just did in a few short senteces.

Well done and well said.

Morph.

Ack-Ack · « **Reply #81 on:** June 14, 2004, 02:54:45 AM »

Since AH2 is able to have the large maps, it's quite possible to create a map for the DA that has both an area for a Fightertown and for dueling. Kill two birds with one stone.

ack-ack

DipStick · « **Reply #82 on:** June 14, 2004, 04:39:15 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by MoRphEuS
Dipstick you are my new Hero I think.

Shhhhh Dont tell Wadke I said that

It took me 3 whole in depth posts to say the same thing you just did in a few short senteces.

Well done and well said.

Morph.

Hehehe... well thanks Morph and I WILL tell Wadke you said that.

Now all we need is Beet1e to come in and say we are just a bunch of backslappers and this thread is done.

Mugzeee · « **Reply #83 on:** June 14, 2004, 05:33:20 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by DipStick
Think he just left out the "if it were used" part.

I'm pretty sure HTC knows what he is doing and doesn't require your advice. The CT is exclusively for certain (historical) plane matchups, it suffers from a limited planeset, the DA is for practice period. The MA is where the most targets can be found so naturally fighters will go there.

We attempt to create good furballs in the MA between bases in close proximity or CV to bases as the case may be. All the 'war winning' stuff is ignored.

Plain and simple I doubt HT wants to split up the players as you suggest (although I don't and wouldn't try to speak for him). The beauty of this game is the large amount of players in one arena and the fact that it works well as far as lag, text chat, voice, etc... goes. IMHO.

In closing, put me down for a NO vote.

...I pulled the quote directly from Morphs statment posted on 06-13-2004 11:59 PM of this thread. Un-refuteable.
Or are you implying that he Means to say "If it were used"?
Either way Morph has a long history of saying things that he latter has to.....well....lets just say revise.
This is a place for chatting and or shareing. It was a Proposal and a question to the community in general. Morph started the personal flame fest cause...well hes that way.
As far as HTC knowing what they are doing? They are already spending their money on a few servers that get very little use. This is factuall and can be proved every day at any time of the day of every week of the month by going to the current arenas and taking count. Then do the math.
I just looked
MA=62 players
Beta=21
CT=1
TA=0
DA=0
Thats like 1.25% attending the Alternitive arenas at this time?
Yes im combining the Beta and the MA as 1 arena. So it could be off a little. I think its a safe to bet little more than .5%
Again..this idea is NOTHING NEW. I has been done in recent history and it was Much More sucessfull in respect to Percentages of usage than the Aces High DA and CT combined. I Was a part of it for a long time. Some 5 years or so. As have many other players that played Airwarrior and are now here at Aces High. Ask HT about the influx of players that came from Aces High....several hundred. They left because the game was shut down by EA corp. Not because they were unhappy with it. In fact most felt very betrayed by the new owners (EA) that Killed our life.

In fact HT might already know this to be true. Word has it...he was a big part of the development of Airwarrior in the latter days. He would have to confirm this of course.

As far as HTC wanting or needing my advise.
Well...that would be for them to decide. Im simply commenting on what i see and making an observation as to wether i think its money wisely spent. Im dang sure they WONT take my advise or ideas if they think its not worth it.
I wasnt asking them to.
I was throwing an idea out to the community.
The idea is FAR from new. Airwarrior had it for a Looong time. And it did get used percentage wise more than the AH CT and DA Combined.

As far as HTC wanting or not wanting to split up players. Havent they already induced a split by offering the DA, and the Ct.
You said your self that the CT was created for guys that had different interest in mind.
As far as speaking for HTC. Im speaking evidence that is for all to see.

OUT

Tilt · « **Reply #84 on:** June 14, 2004, 06:22:13 AM »

If the present AH2 anti pork model (or something similar) is retained I cannot see the need for a separate fighter town based upon the supposition that pork and grab is "anti fighter".

Fighters can find combat and be reasonably equipped to engage (FBM to one side)

If pork is not an issue then the only remaining factor is horde based. ie massive local disparity of numbers. This can also happen in a fighter town envrionment.

Where I have seen separate FT arena's elsewhere they have ended up no more (in fact less) popular than the CT is now.

I am not saying that the Duelling arena could not be enhanced............I think it could........... for me it could be many things.

Why a separate training and duelling environment? wouldn't there be a saving if they could be one?

Training, practicing, duelling, testing in all rides could all be fullfilled in a large multipurpose arena where many "needs" are met.

Given the talent of some of some of our terrain builders, would it not be worth while looking at a design that met these needs?

What would be those needs? well i can suggest my thoughts

Paired Dueling fields (as present set to various alts)

GV City and forest

Free fighter zone with heavily defended (anti vulch bases)

PT pond (why not)

Basic fighter training with a mix of land, sea and air starts.

Basic Bomber training with mix of land, sea and air starts and some ring targets. (also a torp practice area)

Basic GV training.

Race tracks (pylon and terrain)

Test run (standard piece of terrain for testing stuff...needs thought)

IF ToD allows drones then some could be added to those training areas that would benefit.

Mugzeee · « **Reply #85 on:** June 14, 2004, 06:29:40 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by MoRphEuS
You know what... I just notice the title of this thread is really a question. Shows how much I over look things at time.

Why?

I mean why would you entitle this thread as a question?

Could it be because many who are in there right now get upset with fuel porking? I say this becaues I've seen it happen.(Players getting upset because others want to play strat games) OR could it be because players in there right now get upset because you guys are in there taking bases?

Just asking Mugz. Im curious really though what EXACTLY brought this idea of yours on. Not just because of a few guys not liking land grabbers I am almost certain of that. I think there is more and I'm anxious now to find out.

Let me tell ya something you probably already know. Once AH1 dies, the MA we have now in AH1 will be a mirror image to that of what we will have in AH2. This I know for a fact. Humans are creatures of habbit. The habbits we have aquiered in the game will only carry over to AH2. We are always going to have land grabbers, always going to have furballers, always going to have fight wrecking fuel porkers. (thought I'd slip that last one one in there ) I enjoy to contradict myself, it gives you something to quote. lol

The MA you know and LOVE is coming to AH2 soon Mugz. Fear not.

I hope you are reading ALL of what I wrote. This way there can be no "confusion".
Ok I'm done for now Quote away bud

CHEERS!
Morph:D

Rofl... why would i pose a proposal as a question?
ummmm because i wanted to get a feel for wether or not guys would like this FT? And perhaps give HT something to think about?
.
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THATS IT!!!!!

Quote

Originally posted by MoRphEuS
Just asking Mugz. Im curious really though what EXACTLY brought this idea of yours on. Not just because of a few guys not liking land grabbers I am almost certain of that. I think there is more and I'm anxious now to find out.

As for what brought this on......If you had went to the Links i included at the Opening of this thread.
Oh shucks...let me quote my self

"The two links below are examples of how the community feels about the issues. I have read countless posts and replies on these very issues. I mean. When this issue comes it rolls like wildfire. players are very passionate about this issue.

http://www.hitechcreations.com/foru...referrerid=7566

http://www.hitechcreations.com/foru...referrerid=7566

PS. I still have you as a NO vote . even if you change your mind..Im keeping you as a no vote.

hmmm ,would that be a "hanging chad"...or a "dimpled chad"?

Here is an excerpt from the first. BTW you replied to it yourself..5th reply. I know..you prolly over looked it. But "Boy....i...say Boy. Pay attention son" These discussions are hard to keep coherent if you don't read ALL of the material..

Its entitled Well, The game i loved is dead and gone.
Quote
Originally posted by Urchin
Never to return I think. Absolutely no emphasis on A2A combat at all. None. The only A2A combat I've seen since I've come back from my latest "break" was incidental to a large horde trying to take a base from a relatively small number of people. Is it possible to be "successful" in this environment? Sure. It is possible to have any fun fights in this environment... no, not really.

Same old stale N1K,Spit, La7, P51 planeset, with the occasional something else thrown in for spice. I don't think I'll be coming back for AH1, but I'll keep paying the subscription and waiting for AH2. Good luck all, and to HT & company, thanks for making what used to be a great game. I guess it just outgrew me.

The second link is from a thread you started entitled "What would you change and why"?
Here are some replies from that thread.
Quote
Originally posted by Westy
I'd remove countries, abolish squads and banish icons. I'd make the MA a 100% "free for all" deathmatch bowl!

Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
closer fileds would fix everything... it is possible to have good fights between two distant fields but pretty rare... close fields allways have good fites as do CV's which are... in affect.... close fields.

lazs

Quote
Originally posted by MOSQ
I agree with Laz on this one. The furball island of early war planes on Ozkansas is great fun!

Quote
Originally posted by Furious
Put an end to land grabbing hordes and install an actual front.

Have the arena close fields not directly involved in the fight. Say 2-3 sectors wide by 3-4 sectors deep in.

Quote
Originally posted by eskimo2
The most fun that I've ever had in AH has been in a few odd CT maps that have bases 4 to 10 miles apart in certain areas.

I'd like to see all bases 6 to 9 miles apart.

eskimo

Quote
Originally posted by Hornet
end the landgrab.

Quote
Originally posted by Mugzeee
Why? Isnt that what the game is about?

Quote
Originally posted by Zazen13
Correct me if I'm wrong but it seems to me the fundamental underlying premise of the game "Aces" "HIGH" is a combat flight simulator using WW2 era aircraft. If land grabbing were the underlying premise it might be called "Global" "Conquest" or something. THe land grabbing aspect just provides a context for the perpetuation of the airiel conflict, nothing more.

The land grabbing is just a means to the end, the end being the airiel combat. That is why maps come and go, bases come and go, but the fighting remains largely the same and continues in basically the same form without interuption ad infinitum.

Zazen

Quote
Originally posted by Mugzeee
So your basing your opinion on the "Name" of the game? I mean really. To think AH is a product that was specifically and only designed for Virtual Fighter “Aces” to duel or furball seems silly to me.
Seems like a ton of work that HTC has went through to accomplish the "means" you speak of. Eeee gads man, just make a map with 2 bases and Duke it out. On the contrary, i am more inclined to believe they had much more in mind. They added Bombers to the game along with a complex strategic re-supply system. Factories, Cities, Convoy's, trains, and anything else i may have forgotten to include. Oh yes, there are (Tank’s) Did I say Tank’s? Hmmm don’t see how (Tanks) fit in “airiel combat”. They developed a World "WAR" Two simulator. Intentionally or not they developed a War Sim nonetheless. I think the developers had a larger audience in mind. They developed a game that would draw from at least two mindsets or interests. WWII wana be Fighter “Aces”, and those that would like to be a little more in depth with the WAR game. Therefore the "end" of the "means" is $$$$$$. And that is marketing savvy. A thoughtful approach would have to conclude that AH1 or AH2 is a WAR sim by design. Which of course includes both types of players. Land Grab is here to stay. And actually is what the game is all about as per design.
PS. I still think that HTC should create an Arena strictly for Dog Fighting. This way the debate would end. And the "Aces" could really prove their metal against other "Aces" Not against Bombers and Heavy-laden fighters trying to dive on a ground target. However, the crying would still continue. Because the "Aces" would complain that there aren’t enough noobs to pad their score.

That should be enough to answer your question as to "What brought this on"
HT Please dont ban me from the BBS for using too much space.
Thats the last time i do someone elses homework. hehe

Mugzeee · « **Reply #86 on:** June 14, 2004, 06:33:36 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Ack-Ack
Since AH2 is able to have the large maps, it's quite possible to create a map for the DA that has both an area for a Fightertown and for dueling. Kill two birds with one stone.

ack-ack

I agree.. But it beggs the policeing question?
Maybe an invisable force field... dividing the map 25% on one side 75% on the other? Like the one that Blows us into a million peices when going off the edge of the map in trinity? hmm wonder if that could be done?

Tilt · « **Reply #87 on:** June 14, 2004, 06:36:50 AM »

50k high mountains ?

Mugzeee · « **Reply #88 on:** June 14, 2004, 06:44:01 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Tilt
If the present AH2 anti pork model (or something similar) is retained I cannot see the need for a separate fighter town based upon the supposition that pork and grab is "anti fighter".

Fighters can find combat and be reasonably equipped to engage (FBM to one side)

If pork is not an issue then the only remaining factor is horde based. ie massive local disparity of numbers. This can also happen in a fighter town envrionment.

Where I have seen separate FT arena's elsewhere they have ended up no more (in fact less) popular than the CT is now.

I am not saying that the Duelling arena could not be enhanced............I think it could........... for me it could be many things.

Why a separate training and duelling environment? wouldn't there be a saving if they could be one?

Training, practicing, duelling, testing in all rides could all be fullfilled in a large multipurpose arena where many "needs" are met.

Given the talent of some of some of our terrain builders, would it not be worth while looking at a design that met these needs?

What would be those needs? well i can suggest my thoughts

Paired Dueling fields (as present set to various alts)

GV City and forest

Free fighter zone with heavily defended (anti vulch bases)

PT pond (why not)

Basic fighter training with a mix of land, sea and air starts.

Basic Bomber training with mix of land, sea and air starts and some ring targets. (also a torp practice area)

Basic GV training.

Race tracks (pylon and terrain)

Test run (standard piece of terrain for testing stuff...needs thought)

IF ToD allows drones then some could be added to those training areas that would benefit.

All good observations Tilt.
I was thinking on the Blue text.
the Fighter Town of Airwarrior was pretty even. Players would take it on themselves to switch country to keep numbers even.
The FT could have an auto country select. I know of a lot of online games in the past have had this feature. Probably not hard to write into code. But i wouldnt know. This would keep things in check and the fights relatively even. Would make for some awesome fighting i think

Mugzeee · « **Reply #89 on:** June 14, 2004, 06:47:24 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Tilt
50k high mountains ?

heheh That would suffice.