Author Topic: Request: Burn Rate (Read 1176 times)

FDutchmn · « **on:** June 12, 2004, 09:13:00 AM »

Please place Burn Rate as it was in AH1, Reason: Current Burn Rate of 2.0 will severely limit climbing time of Fighters at full throttle, thereby limiting intercept capability on high alt bombers. Please give it a thought.

Wotan · « **Reply #1 on:** June 12, 2004, 09:18:06 AM »

the FBM was 2 in AH1, fuel consumption has been reworked on some of the planes for AH2 some burn more (like the la7) some burn a bit less (109s).

BTW I think its a bit high myself but I had my say on that in another thread...

Kweassa · « **Reply #2 on:** June 12, 2004, 09:26:20 AM »

I don't think it's a problem, FD.

I've noticed that it's now a little risky to fly medium bombers such as B-26s with only 25% fuel. So, the medium bombers do have a bit o' weight problem if they carry 50% fuel.

The B-17s and Lancasters still fly very long with 25%, but most planes reach over 20k around 6~7 minutes. And then you can almost double your flight time by cruisng at that altitude with most planes. Almost triple the flight time if DTs are on.

The burn rate does present a problem that you cannot directly chase after a buff formation passing over, and get into a long, climbing chase and then engage it.

However, come to think of it, that should mean that an interceptor must be prepared to deal with a threat at least 6~7 minutes before it reaches its target destination - it simply means people have to learn to plan ahead, and I can accept that as new game play.

....

If there is something that should be looked upon - it's the low-level deck bombing. Buffs coming in at low altitudes, crapping it's load 1000ft AGL, and then getting shot down. It's deliberate suicide.

While the fuel porking is now a non-issue, unfortunately, the new realistic field layout has lined the FHs and BHs up nicely, and a couple of suicidal formations can knock stuff out real fast.

FDutchmn · « **Reply #3 on:** June 12, 2004, 09:28:21 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Kweassa
I don't think it's a problem, FD.

I've noticed that it's now a little risky to fly medium bombers such as B-26s with only 25% fuel. So, the medium bombers do have a bit o' weight problem if they carry 50% fuel.

The B-17s and Lancasters still fly very long with 25%, but most planes reach over 20k around 6~7 minutes. And then you can almost double your flight time by cruisng at that altitude with most planes. Almost triple the flight time if DTs are on.

The burn rate does present a problem that you cannot directly chase after a buff formation passing over, and get into a long, climbing chase and then engage it.

However, come to think of it, that should mean that an interceptor must be prepared to deal with a threat at least 6~7 minutes before it reaches its target destination - it simply means people have to learn to plan ahead, and I can accept that as new game play.

....

If there is something that should be looked upon - it's the low-level deck bombing. Buffs coming in at low altitudes, crapping it's load 1000ft AGL, and then getting shot down. It's deliberate suicide.

While the fuel porking is now a non-issue, unfortunately, the new realistic field layout has lined the FHs and BHs up nicely, and a couple of suicidal formations can knock stuff out real fast.

no no, my point is that fighters cant get alt with this burn rate.

Kweassa · « **Reply #4 on:** June 12, 2004, 09:33:41 AM »

Just how much alt are we talking about? The flight time changes as you get higher - even at full throttle.

True, it takes a huge gulp of fuel to push planes upto 30k now - and usually planes with internal load only will meet some problems..(unless it's something like a P-51). However, I don't think there's any plane that 'can't' get to alt at all in the first place.

(Well, for some planes like La-7s and Yaks, it's indeed a problem. But they shouldn't be at that alt anyway.)

FDutchmn · « **Reply #5 on:** June 12, 2004, 09:37:36 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Kweassa
Just how much alt are we talking about? The flight time changes as you get higher - even at full throttle.

True, it takes a huge gulp of fuel to push planes upto 30k now - and usually planes with internal load only will meet some problems..(unless it's something like a P-51). However, I don't think there's any plane that 'can't' get to alt at all in the first place.

(Well, for some planes like La-7s and Yaks, it's indeed a problem. But they shouldn't be at that alt anyway.)

how about the 109s, there will be very little time left for them to scout around at alt, or the 190s. The only planes left that can intercept high alt buffs will be the fuel efficient n1k2s or ki61s.

Kweassa · « **Reply #6 on:** June 12, 2004, 09:44:25 AM »

FD, with only internal fuel I can go to 25k and set it into cruise mode, and fly for about 25~30 minutes max.

The 190s can do pretty much the same, except it takes longer time to get to 30k since it starts suffering poor climb over 22k.

I'll try a flight and get a screen shot of the available time.

FDutchmn · « **Reply #7 on:** June 12, 2004, 09:50:36 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Kweassa
FD, with only internal fuel I can go to 25k and set it into cruise mode, and fly for about 25~30 minutes max.

The 190s can do pretty much the same, except it takes longer time to get to 30k since it starts suffering poor climb over 22k.

I'll try a flight and get a screen shot of the available time.

the point kweassa, how much lee way can we give to the fighters to adjust the course of intercept. LW fighters are gonna suffer if they up from a wrong base

Kweassa · « **Reply #8 on:** June 12, 2004, 10:11:15 AM »

FD, with only internal load, no DTs, take-off, WEP climb to 25k and level:

* The Bf109G-10 has 25 minutes of flight time, 112miles(4.5 sectors) range. Cruise setting extends 19 minutes of flight time to 25 minutes at 25k.

* The Fw190D-9 has 43 minutes of flight time, 198miles(8 sectors) range. Cruise setting extends 18 minutes of flight time to 43 minutes at 25k.

The range and flight time isn't a problem. Like I said, the problem is spotting them out early so we don't need to gasp at all the misinformation and fly to new intercept locations at max throttle all the time.

It's more of player cooperative issue, than a real fuel issue. Don't get me wrong - I personally would also prefer someting about 1.7~1.8 fuel burn. Im just pointing out it is possible, if the need really presents itself.

FDutchmn · « **Reply #9 on:** June 12, 2004, 10:35:15 AM »

2.0 too high me thinks anyway

bozon · « **Reply #10 on:** June 12, 2004, 11:12:25 AM »

FDutchmn, I took a G2 with 100% and DT, chases a P51 a sector away to his base (he landed...) at full throttle and wep 15k alt. then I set it on "normal" setting which gives a speed of ~330 mph and still had 54 min of flight. Flew another 1.5 sectors to find action - no one came to fight so I flew it into the ground.

and still had fuel in the DT.

Bozon

FDutchmn · « **Reply #11 on:** June 12, 2004, 11:45:32 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by bozon
FDutchmn, I took a G2 with 100% and DT, chases a P51 a sector away to his base (he landed...) at full throttle and wep 15k alt. then I set it on "normal" setting which gives a speed of ~330 mph and still had 54 min of flight. Flew another 1.5 sectors to find action - no one came to fight so I flew it into the ground.

and still had fuel in the DT.

Bozon

how the 109F, we not gonna see that in the arena with this burn rate. well, anyway, as Kweassa rightly up, the issue probably should present itself. But I think 2.0 is too high.

ergRTC · « **Reply #12 on:** June 12, 2004, 12:04:37 PM »

Has it occured to you why they added the new fuel model? Perhaps to keep people from flying full throttle all the time? Now you complain because you cant fly full throttle all the time? How is that going to get the fuel multiplier dropped?

Personally I love it. I like taking a g6 up without the drop and having to watch my speed depending on how far I am traveling. Then making sure I throttle up in time to have a good speed advantage when I get to a combat situation. Once in combat, you have to just forget about the fuel, otherwise you will be dead from other things. Only thing to remember is leaving enough to get away, which is much easier now, cause low rpm and throttle settings increase mpg immensely, and you know exactly how far you can travel on what you have left.

fyi I have not found an issue getting to 20k and having plenty of fuel for buff chasing or interepting. I dont understand how this has reduced your ability to climb. You can still cruise at 340 mph in most planes worth using as an interceptor, which is easily fast enough to catch any buff.

Yak 9u is pretty restricted in the fuel department, but heck, its got like a plastic 5 gallon tank under the pilots seat right? What do you expect. It also has a very good cruising speed.

SELECTOR · « **Reply #13 on:** June 12, 2004, 12:08:35 PM »

as far as burn rate go( or any other perfomance factors) i would like realistic levels...please please please:aok

ergRTC · « **Reply #14 on:** June 12, 2004, 12:08:41 PM »

If the fuel modifier is lowered to 1.5 or 1.8, I believe engine management will only be used by those planning on flying for 2 hours, not everyone. As it is, everybody has to worry about it.

Yes I know the late american planes have an advantage here, but they are also pigs when fully loaded with fuel. p51 pilots HAVE to drain the aux tank before they can relax, or even think about maneuvering, and p47 are not exactly nimble with a full tank either. I would not want to tangle with a 109f at half a tank, with a p47 with 75%-100% fuel on board, no matter how fast the p47 was.