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Author Topic: 190A5 deck speed  (Read 4581 times)

Offline GODO

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190A5 deck speed
« on: June 12, 2004, 06:08:55 PM »
Our new AH2 190A5 seems to do no more than 339 mph at 300 feet, that with four guns and full fuel tanks.

The following Focke-Wulf chart shows 190A5 using a 1942 BMW engine doing 352 mph on the deck, also in a four guns configuration.

190A5 speed chart

Pyro, can you revise our 190A5 speed, please?
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Offline Karnak

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190A5 deck speed
« Reply #1 on: June 12, 2004, 11:39:30 PM »
Is that the chart done using overly optimistic calculations in place of actual flight testing again?
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Offline GODO

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190A5 deck speed
« Reply #2 on: June 13, 2004, 04:46:45 AM »
The chart is dated 20/10/43 (190A6 was already in production line), and 190A5 was introduced in Nov 1942. Why to use overoptimistic calculations for a more than tested plane? The chart shows also two curves per powersetting, one may be considered overoptimistic and the other overpesimistic, but both start from the same point a the deck, 567Km/h.
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Offline VO101_Isegrim

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190A5 deck speed
« Reply #3 on: June 13, 2004, 05:37:49 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Karnak
Is that the chart done using overly optimistic calculations in place of actual flight testing again?


Pray tell me WHY 565 km/h is 'overly optimistic' for a plane with 1800 PS engine, hmm ? In fact, in the USN`s tests, they even exceeded FW`s own speed specifications at high altitudes by a considerable margin.
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Offline GODO

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190A5 deck speed
« Reply #4 on: June 13, 2004, 06:31:01 AM »
190A8 did 339 mph at sea level with same powersetting than 190A5 (1.42 ata 2700 rpm), but being 600lb heavier and with extra drag due 13mm Mg instalations.

In AH2 both planes use same military powersetting (2400 rpm, 39.5MAN), at 300 feet 190A5 (100% fuel, 4x20mm) reaches 326mph, 190A8, while being much heavier, reaches 329mph (100% fuel, 4x20mm).

IMO, something is wrong here and should be revised.
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Offline Wotan

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190A5 deck speed
« Reply #5 on: June 13, 2004, 10:06:20 AM »
The phantom missing "12 mph" at SL again...

It didnt work for Ram either....

Wil this here is definately a "Round 12".....

:p
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Offline GScholz

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190A5 deck speed
« Reply #6 on: June 13, 2004, 12:11:54 PM »
I don't know about those "missing" 12mph, but I do find it strange that the A8 is faster than the A5 on the same power setting. The A5 being lighter and cleaner than the A8.
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Offline Wotan

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190A5 deck speed
« Reply #7 on: June 13, 2004, 01:09:16 PM »
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Offline Karnak

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190A5 deck speed
« Reply #8 on: June 13, 2004, 04:13:13 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by VO101_Isegrim
Pray tell me WHY 565 km/h is 'overly optimistic' for a plane with 1800 PS engine, hmm ? In fact, in the USN`s tests, they even exceeded FW`s own speed specifications at high altitudes by a considerable margin.

If that is the chart that I think it is, it was done using German calculations that are overly optimistic for low altitude speed.  This method is overly optimistic regardless of the aircraft in question.

If it is the chart I think it is, then it is not flight testing, but engineering gestimates of the proposed aircraft's performance.
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Offline GODO

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190A5 deck speed
« Reply #9 on: June 13, 2004, 05:48:51 PM »
Karnak, can you explain why our A8 is marginaly faster than A5 both in military power at 300 feet?
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Offline Wilbus

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190A5 deck speed
« Reply #10 on: June 14, 2004, 06:59:23 AM »
Leave me out of this Wotan! :D


To be honest, I don't give a damn anymore but I do agree with you.
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Rasmus "Wilbus" Mattsson

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Offline Wilbus

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190A5 deck speed
« Reply #11 on: June 14, 2004, 07:18:52 AM »
Btw, if you look at the man pressure gauge in the A5/A8/F8 you will see that the A5 is running on 43 while the A8/F8 run on 40, that's at the deck.

Just FYI.
« Last Edit: June 14, 2004, 07:22:37 AM by Wilbus »
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Rasmus "Wilbus" Mattsson

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Offline Wotan

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190A5 deck speed
« Reply #12 on: June 14, 2004, 07:56:44 AM »
I linke dthe same thread 2 times in my last post the second link was meant to be this thread

http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=26425
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Offline Wotan

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190A5 deck speed
« Reply #13 on: June 14, 2004, 08:40:33 AM »
Wil the a5 reads 42.5 at mil. Its a bug it should read 39.5 @ mil. 42.2 is wep setting. I will post in the bug forum.

My tests of the a8 4 x 20 100% fuel

SL=
2400 rpm @ 40 MP (guage reads 40 e6b says 39.5) = 330mph

A5 2 x 151 and 2 x mgff/m

SL=
2400 rpm @ 42.5 (guage reads 42.5 e6n says 39.5) = 328mph

If you look at the chart Godo posted there are 2 curves for each of the 3 settings. The left curve for each setting is the most accurate.

If the AH A5 is based on the G3 tested by the US it still doesnt explain why the a8 which is heavier and has more drag is faster then the a5 at mil power.

Even if the chart godo posted is calculated why would the a5 be slower?

That's the question. Whether its 8 mph or 12 mpg really makes no difference. As Urchin said in the other thread its not like the A5 will be out there running down the runstangs and typhies and la7s etc...

This is an old arguement that is scared by a few posters who dont know when enough is enough. It would appear even if they are on to something it most likely will be ignored becasue of their history.

That's not to say HTC hasnt looked at this data and reached a different conclusion. But there has been many threads on this and the a5 has remained the same. Take your pick.

Anyway fly a 109, they are much more fun :p
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Offline Crumpp

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190A5 deck speed
« Reply #14 on: June 14, 2004, 08:50:38 AM »
So you are saying this has become a personal issue with the Staff of HTC?

Crumpp
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