AP rounds and structural damage

[GODO]

Actually a P51 can cut a B17 in half with a single pass. No doubt these 50 Cal could transform a B17 in a full of holes cheese, damaging every kind of system onboard, but heavy structural damage is another thing. I see no way to cut a B17 wing with 12mm AP ammo, not even with 20mm AP. In general, aircraft structures should be much more resistant to AP hits.

[XtrmeJ]

I think you should watch this, and rethink what you've said.

Enjoy

Pay attention to the planes, if ya know the plane, you know what load out they had. Also take a look at the ammount of time each plane fires at its target..

[Replicant]

Originally posted by XtrmeJ
I think you should watch this, and rethink what you've said.

Enjoy

Pay attention to the planes, if ya know the plane, you know what load out they had. Also take a look at the ammount of time each plane fires at its target..

Thanks for the film, I found it interesting but also sickening - poor chaps!

It does appear that the B17 in AH can't take as much punishment as what these gun cam footage show.  It seems much easier in AH.

[Delirium]

Fragility has always been a real complaint but the real core of the matter is that most of AH flyers are more accuarate than than the WWII flyers were historically.

Not only that, we don't have the more difficult task of engine management which frees up alot of time and concentration for gunnery. Add that to the number of hours and number of fights we get into and the lack of adrenaline which the real flyers had.

Also, on a smaller scale, (imho) HTC has bombers lose wings and other structures to represent damage that would prevent the bomber from returning home historically.

[SirLoin]

It might seem like they are taking more damage but those films are being played at a much slower speed...Try an AH film at half speed and I think you will see the same thing more or less.

[Kweassa]

I agree with Sirloin.

 I also agree with Godo.

 The overall amount of hits it takes to destroy planes - fighter aircraft and buffs alike - seems fair in AH.

 The event responsible for destruction however, seems to weigh very heavily on structural failures, even in cases logically should be not.

[GODO]

XtrmeJ, these big explosions tearing parts away come from HE hits, nor AP neither API (unless causing an internal fuel explosion). Problem in AH is AP ammo causing devastating structural damage instead of a bunch of small holes.

[Kweassa]

The problem is, the fact that different types of rounds should cause different types of damage implies that there must be different types of things to damage on the plane.

 And the IL2/FB experience pretty much seems to indicate that balancing and fine-tuning such sophisticated DM to satisfiable levels, should take incredible amount of effort to implement. The sophisticated DM began with original IL-2 - it took a separate title and 3~4 add-ons, numerous patches in between them, to finally get it working to a satisfiable level.... and still, there are hordes of people who whine about how their favorite guns are porked.

 I'd love to see such sophisticated DM implemented into AH someday, but I don't think its even a remote possibility any time soon.

[DREDIOCK]

Originally posted by GODO
Actually a P51 can cut a B17 in half with a single pass. No doubt these 50 Cal could transform a B17 in a full of holes cheese,  

Had the pleasure a couple years ago to check out a17 under restoration. I was amazed at how thin skinned those 17's were.
Probably not much thicker then the tin used to make soup cans. if that

50 cal hell
Wouldnt take a whole lot more then a BBgun to poke holes in that skin LOL

[Replicant]

Originally posted by DREDIOCK
Had the pleasure a couple years ago to check out a17 under restoration. I was amazed at how thin skinned those 17's were.
Probably not much thicker then the tin used to make soup cans. if that

50 cal hell
Wouldnt take a whole lot more then a BBgun to poke holes in that skin LOL

Yup!  That was my exact thought when I went in a B17 and a Lancaster.  The skin is really thin and any round would pass through very easily killing anyone in its path.  Makes you feel very vulnerable!

[bustr]

By the looks of the rear attacks on some of the buffs, more of us should be dieing from pilot wounds while rear gunning. At a July 4th airshow in 96 here at Oakland California, I talked with some of the crew from a B17 and B24. It's hard to kill engines while shooting through the length of the nacel from directly behind. It's easier to kill the tail gunner.

[meddog]

Hey Extreme J which one of those is me? lol

[GODO]

Originally posted by DREDIOCK
I was amazed at how thin skinned those 17's were.

You can take out all that skin, the struture will remain unaltered. You cant cut a wing just making thousands of small holes in that sking.

[Urchin]

I meant to post here earlier..  

This is a quote from Fighter Combat by Robert Shaw.  In turn, it looks like he got it from The Look of Eagles by John Godfrey, a USAAF ace flying on the Western Front during WW2.

"We were both flying in a tight circle.  Just a little more and I'll have him[\i].  Pressing the tit, I waited expectantly for the 109 to explode.  I've hit his wing.  A section two feet long broke loose from the right wing as the machine gun bullets cut like a machete through it.  Too low, a little more rudder and the bullets will find his cockpit.  I could see occasional strikes farther up the wing, but it was to late.  The 109, sensing that I was inside him on the turn, slunk into a nearby cloud."  

Whats that sound like to you?  To me, it sounds rather like structural damage.

[Wotan]

With stressed skin ac part of what made it strong was the "skin"

LW M'geschoss rounds were designed to blow out the skin to create catostrophic damage.

Even AP rounds ripping through the skin of an ac can cause enough damage so that airflow gets under the skin and rips it away. The A6M2 had a lo speed dive restriction because above 300mph (IIRC) the skin would tear of the wings and they would then fail.