Author Topic: Email from an P-51 Ace... (Read 1615 times)

VOR · « **Reply #15 on:** July 03, 2004, 01:57:44 AM »

Most excellent, Stream! Thanks!

nopoop · « **Reply #16 on:** July 05, 2004, 02:18:17 AM »

Priceless

gripen · « **Reply #17 on:** July 05, 2004, 09:34:55 AM »

A good read! He is very analytical on his own doings.

gripen

o0Stream140o · « **Reply #18 on:** September 02, 2004, 11:21:58 PM »

I wanted to show this to you guys.... Two of my guys got to meet Art Fiedler at Camarillo Air Show... They took some pictures...

Mr. Fiedler is the one on the left, the person on the right is Lt. Michael Karatsonyi. He was a pilot for the Lufwaffe and flew the ME 109-G6 and had five victories. He was shot down and survived a horrible fire in the cockpit. His eyelids were burned so severely that he could not shut them for four year's. Funny thing is that these two guys were in the same battle at one time...

Here is Mr. Feidler in front of a P-51D that was painted #11 that Hershell Green flew for the 317th. Mr. Fiedler flew Hershell "Herky" Green's wing...

-------------------------------------------------------------

Colonel Stream
Commanding Officer

o0Stream140o · « **Reply #19 on:** September 02, 2004, 11:34:02 PM »

Here was a question put to Mr. Fiedler...

Quote

How long did the average dogfight last and why?
When would you engage and when would you not engage as well as when would you disengage and why?

His answer...

Quote

I’m afraid that I am unable to give you a clear cut answer to your question. I do not know what AN AVERAGE DOGFIGHT IS. Let me give you some things to consider: Am I just one attacking one, or am I attacking more or many more than one. Am I with a squadron attacking say 20, 40, or 100 of them? Or perhaps we are being bounced by a superior number or it is a hit and run attack by the enemy who continues to dive away at high speed. Are we escorting bombers and could this be a feint to get us away from the bombers who then will be attacked by a large number of the enemy? I hope you can see that AN AVERAGE dogfight is difficult to pinpoint.

With that out of the way, consider when the dogfight begins. Is it when I first see him or he first sees me or when one of the other actually starts an attack or begins firing.
I trust you see the position I am in as the above does not have cut and dried definitions.

So just let me hit on a few of the combats I was in and let you make up your own mind. In my first one, I saw the 109 and observed him for about 2 minutes with no one responding to my radio calls. When it seemed he would get away, I went after him. That did not last 30 seconds before another 51 almost collided with me and I went back up to the squadron.

The next one I was returning alone to base with a rough engine. Saw 6 Me-109s lining up to attack some B-24s. Immediately dove to the attack, all except last one started their attacks before I got there. Latched on to the last one, flew right through the bombers with me on the 109s tail. Had no gun sight so did not hit him until through bombers. Followed him to 15,000 feet then tried to go back to bombers (orders). From the time I began firing until I left him at 15K might have been 20 to 40 seconds.

Next one, bounced two at 27K, followed first down saw him smash into ground, engaged 2nd one, saw him bail out. Estimate that lasted 3 to 4 minutes from 1st sighting and about 3 minutes from starting to fire.

Next one, four of us chased 7 or 8 for about 40/50 miles (Was that part of the dogfight). They split up, I attacked the one on the right who was trying to escape and blew him away. From time they split up until I blew him away, probably 30 -60 seconds. As you can see the scenario was different much of the time
On one occasion our squadron at 28000’ dove down on a gaggle of 109s at 20000feet. Was that the start of the dog fight or when we caught up with them. That was a real mess, my windshield frosted up, I had to disengage, try to clear the ice off and was engaged by 5 or 6 109s who for some reason dove away (Maybe low on fuel??) I will skip many of the other encounters but just mention over France 1 Me-109 kept fighting six of us for at least 5 minutes before we did him in. We kept getting in each others way.

My last fight, 4 of us attacked estimated 40 of them diving on the bombers, lasted at least 5 minutes for me ( I was alone after first 20 seconds) By the way some 12 to 15 chased me from Prague to Italy and then gave up. How much of that was a dog fight?
We always engaged when bombers were being attacked regardless of their numbers. Might not engage if we thought it was a feint or have some portion of our fighters engage (a flight, or perhaps a section)

With the P-51 we did not disengage until the enemy was destroyed, or we were very low on fuel, or our pilot was wounded. Our orders were to engage the enemy, follow him where ever he goes and destroy him. Of course you would BE disengaged if he shot you down. No choice.

KootDawg · « **Reply #20 on:** September 04, 2004, 10:53:36 AM »

Man this is good.......

This is a true Hero to America....

CurtissP-6EHawk · « **Reply #21 on:** September 04, 2004, 12:31:22 PM »

Stream you forgot this one:

by Art Fiedler

"...........if I were in a 109 and wanted to attack an equal number of 51s, I would do one of two things. I would try to evade/avoid them or make a high speed dive at them, hope they did not see me, try to knock off one or two of them and keep going as fast as possible down and away from them. We could do everything better than they could so unless the pilot was a fantastic pilot, tangling with P-51s with at least average pilots was a lose-lose situation. So if they yo yo off us, we still are coming after them and they are in trouble. Check how the top German ace, Hartmann, did it. Normally a dive from 40K, hold fire until 100 meters away, fire and continue the dive away. Of course this required him to not be seen before the attack."

Furball · « **Reply #22 on:** September 04, 2004, 12:48:03 PM »

Off topic

CurtissP-6EHawk · « **Reply #23 on:** September 04, 2004, 01:41:18 PM »

I am still here but my friend Chris Harper was just killed in a crop dusting accident, later guys

Shane · « **Reply #24 on:** September 04, 2004, 02:04:01 PM »

sorry to hear that.

Slash27 · « **Reply #25 on:** September 04, 2004, 02:14:09 PM »

Sorry to hear that Hawk.

B17Skull12 · « **Reply #26 on:** September 04, 2004, 02:53:27 PM »

i got a question for him.

did you ever engage Fw190's?
if so what alt did they you normally see them at and were they hard to kill? as in how many bullets you needed to put into them to make them go down?

memnon · « **Reply #27 on:** September 04, 2004, 03:09:28 PM »

Sorry to hear that Hawk

KootDawg · « **Reply #28 on:** September 08, 2004, 01:49:01 PM »

My condolences Hawk

CurtissP-6EHawk · « **Reply #29 on:** September 08, 2004, 04:00:35 PM »

Details are still scetchy but whitness say he was comming in for a landing in a Thrush (big yellow crop duster) when the nose suddenly pitched up then stalled.

Didnt mean to hyjack the thread!