Torque dumbed down ?

[scout]

'Takeoff dumbed down' woulda been a better heading (pyro has stated torque hasn't beeen changed).

In V0.33 me109 and spit, esp 109 was difficult to take off, due to torque.
Spit compressed left gear and leaned to left markedly.
Not at all impossible, just something that needed training.

P51 was easier / but slightly more torque than brand-W.

For v0.34 it was announced paraphrased "gears was adjusted on some planes for better takeoff".

Now spit and me109 is similar/easier than P51.


[This message has been edited by scout (edited 10-16-1999).]

[leonid]

Hmm.  Scout, what's your point?

[Mark Luper]

Like me, I think he prefered the higher skill level required to take off in the 109 and Spit that we had in previous versions. It was a bit of a bear, but with some practice very doable.


MarkAT

[Teapot]

Yes, I miss the harder take-offs as well. A question though ... how difficult was it in RL? With the .33, I used page-up to give me a better frame of reference, in other words, I could see the runway better   Now I don't need that as the planes will stright track with minimal rudder input  
I really hope this sim stays 'pure'  

Cheers
Teapot.

[funked]

Historical accounts say the P-51D and the later Me 109 were nasty.

I've seen some calcs that indicate brand W. is way underestimating the torque effects.  Dunno about AH.

[scout]

Point is, I would be dissapointed if HT has dumbed it down to make it easier for newbies.
Thats not what I came looking for in AH.

I don't know the real life difficulty of taking off real Warbirds.
But intuitively this seems to easy.
But if HT/Pyro states this is realistic, I'll accept that then.

As of this summer I do know the real life difficulty of taking off towed gliders (instant fm experten alert :-/ ).
Its more difficult than this.
(at least for me, each takeoff require my full attention)

I have one history book claiming more pilots were killed during takeoff / landing in 109 than in actual combat.

I believe the P51 should be easier and markedly different in comparison to Spit and Me109 because it has a wider landing gear.
In V0.33 the P51 was different.


I'll try to make a wider statement:
I believe given immortality, unlimited instant retries and learning from their mistakes (ie, as if playing a PC simulation), _anyone_ can learn to fly a real life Warbird (thats for you -jedi- :-) ).

That is the kind of simulation I'm looking for, one that strives to recreate the behaviour of real life WW2 warbirds on a PC, without making playability compromises.
I wouldn't expect to be able to keep up with my favorite tv show while taking off)


What *does* HT/Pyro strive for ?
Reading the website:
"...each modeled in intricate detail..."
"...use of real world tactics..."
"...don't model complexity for the sake of it...", fine with me (I dont wanna crawl around and inside, checking every bolt-lock and wire pre takeoff...)
"...we don't shy away from those factors we feel are inherent to the real experience...", I hope so.


PS
What *was changed* from 0.33 to 0.34 ?
Pyro has stated torque is unchanged, so thats not it.
Pyro stated (from memory) gear was 'adjusted', I perceive the gear oleos (?) compress much less than before, so thats my guess what was changed.
Because he wouldn't have made the spit and me109 gears as wide as the P51 right ?


scout
(realism-nazi)

[indian]

You know it may be possible that those not having problems taking off now are getting better.

------------------
Tommy (INDIAN) Toon
Cherokee Indian
My Homepage
Where you can find the Key Commands in  files for Word6 Wordpad and text mode.

indians Homepage

Aces High Word6 and Wordpad Doc's available on my web site.

[Teapot]

I don't think that is so Indian  
The change was too sudden, and coincided with the update.

Cheers
Teapot

[Pyro]

Actually, the change had nothing to do with torque.  The adjustment was in the wheel strut and how much slipstream was hitting the vertical stabilizer.  Part of the problem stemmed from when we made the 3D model, the strut was depicted in an unloaded state.  This was used as the basis for how the plane sat on the ground and that put the CG up too high.  The struts themselves were also too mushy causing a very heavy lean.  There's still work to be done though.



------------------
Doug "Pyro" Balmos
HiTech Creations

[Surfer]

Thanks Pyro and that makes sense to me.

-Surfer
=<XXX>= Tres Equis