+ or -

[SlapShot]

Originally posted by Edbert MOL
Point taken (or is that given?) and acknowleged,

I should also add that while I can judge closure rates within 1K of range I cannot do it as well as I could with the old AH1 icon rangefinder. What I was trying to say was that under 1K in AH2 I can tell (over a couple of seconds) if I am closing on a con whereas over 1K out I cannot.

I play at 1024X768 on a 20 inch monitor rather than 1280X1024 which my system can handle becasue I find it easier to see.

YMMV

I thank you and I <> you ...  

I just wish it was the same for me, as it is for you.

[Kev367th]

As I said very hard to judge distance (depth) on a 2d screen. Would like the old style range counter back, and yup bin the + - thing.

[NoBaddy]

Originally posted by SlapShot
in a glance you can tell closure info

Maybe for you eagler, but not for me. Some of us suffer from "old eyeballs" ...

 

What Slap said....

[Eagler]

if your eyes are so bad you can't tell a "+" from a "-" after you jack up the icon size to max, you need new reading glasses not some new and improved ranging system

I do not think HT had "old eyeballs" in mind when he added this "feature". More like trying to make the majority of his paying subs happy with basically a simplification of game play, sorta like auto take off, combat trim, alt X, etc... taking it away from real and towards easy mode

the plus and minus is over simplifying what should take more time and effort than a spilt second glance over your shoulder to see if the con or your six is closing or not

it's is fine but overkill imo

[SlapShot]

Originally posted by Eagler
if your eyes are so bad you can't tell a "+" from a "-" after you jack up the icon size to max, you need new reading glasses not some new and improved ranging system

I do not think HT had "old eyeballs" in mind when he added this "feature". More like trying to make the majority of his paying subs happy with basically a simplification of game play, sorta like auto take off, combat trim, alt X, etc... taking it away from real and towards easy mode

the plus and minus is over simplifying what should take more time and effort than a spilt second glance over your shoulder to see if the con or your six is closing or not

it's is fine but overkill imo

I just got new reading glasses, and I can tell the difference between a + and a - on the screen.

Prior to that, I was having difficulty distinguishing whether the plane was coming at me or going away from me with the new icon update schema. Now I don't have that problem and the game is that much more enjoyable for me ... see I can be selfish too.

I wouldn't presume to make assumptions on what HT thinks or doesn't think. I would like to believe that HT, as a professional software developer does take those things into consideration. I do. All GUI objects, colors, and fonts must be of a size that makes working with them and viewing them easier for those that have trouble in these areas.

CNTRL-I is what you looking for ... use it.

[Steve]

Prior to that, I was having difficulty distinguishing whether the plane was coming at me or going away from me with the new icon update schema. Now I don't have that problem and the game is that much more enjoyable for me ... see I can be selfish too

ditto

As I said very hard to judge distance (depth) on a 2d screen. Would like the old style range counter back, and yup bin the + - thing.

ditto

[Wotan]

Why didn’t you just read the icon?

How fast can con cover 500yrds going 300mph? Certainly fast enough to give you an idea of whether he’s coming toward you or away from you.

Are you telling me your bad eyes can read the little +\- thingy easier then watching the icons change? Inside 1k there's a real "size change" of the bogie as he closes or extends.

So what does +\- thing do for you?

Here's why I don’t care for it...

In a close in dogfight:

I come in say with 1 or 2k ft advantage on a spit 9. I can follow a break through the first quarter or so of the turn but needing to keep energy up (else he run away or the 50 other la7s or spits get me) I use a lot of yo yos, short zooms to set up quick sprints dives to keep in his rear quarter.

Lotsa times he will come full circle and try to follow up the zoom. Or reverse his turn back into me and climb to get a spray shot (this was the typical spit maneuver in AH1).

AT 800 yards with out the +/- thingy he doesn’t really "know" if I am extending in the vertical or if he is closing. He may think twice about following me up. In AH1 he had by the yard range info.

 He may try a little spray and pray but if he sees his speed falling off he may fear being roped and roll and dive away.

With the +\- thingy he can see if he’s closing right away.

In this case - means turn on the hose and hold it because he is gaining. He knows I will run out of e before he does.

So I think the plus +/- thingy sucks arse.

It means a return of "missile defense" flying because any one inside 1k with a - next to their icons will be "hose on" just like AH1.

Now maybe I overlooked something but how does the +\- thingy aid your vision? In high speed passes the range counter is moving fast enough to give closure. When a bogie is moving in fast on you the range counter will give you better info then the +/- thingy.

Even in areas of high concentration of enemy the range counters are moving.

The only time the +/- thingy can be of an benefit that I see is in the slow close in DF's or in a chase. Not to provide better visuals but to give an indication of when to open with the spray.

This is an honest question, with your bad eyes and all. How does the little +/- thing help you see better?

Not how it helps you SA or any of that. Hell if you want better SA then the AH1 icons should just be restored.

[Steve]

Now maybe I overlooked something but how does the +\- thingy aid your vision?

In higher resolutions the planes are just dots(to my eyes) until very close.  In lower resolutions the planes are a little more blocky and increasing/decreasing  size  is hard to detect.

Not to provide better visuals but to give an indication of when to open with the spray.

You keep opening w/ this spray and pray fantasy. I'm no sprayer and I like the old icon system.

AT 800 yards with out the +/- thingy he doesn’t really "know" if I am extending in the vertical or if he is closing. He may think twice about following me up. In AH1 he had by the yard range info.

Funny, I like it for the exact reason you don't.  As I rope a bad guy, I can tell if I need to increase the angle on my spiral based on closure.  I don't mind if they spray at 800 as I'll just spiral tighter than they can pull lead, thus avoiding the bullets.

You are using yoyo's and short sprint dives to stay on an enemy's rear quarter.   The +/- thinige isn't going to aid your quarry one bit in this scenario.  He's either going to be busy trying to shake you or else you're going to blast him while he watches the +/- on your icon.
Your victim should be worried about whether you are in/out of phase w/ him, nose down/up, escape vector and timing on taking it, reversal opportunities, compression speeds... etc.  If he is thinking about the +/- while a pilot of your skills is agressively attacking, he is doing you a favor IMHO.

He may try a little spray and pray but if he sees his speed falling off he may fear being roped and roll and dive away.

You need to learn to anticipate when a guy is going to do this and get your nose down on him before he tries to execute this manuever. Was the same in AHI.  You have to get your nose down on him BEFORE he tries to run. Thus when he DOES nose down to run, he's presenting a nice slow target for you.
I prefer to act instead of react.

[SlapShot]

This is an honest question, with your bad eyes and all. How does the little +/- thing help you see better?

It doesn't help me see better, it helps me assess the situation better.

Prior to the + - thingy, I ran into multiple scenarios where the con was 800 out and from what I could see, I could not tell whether he was coming or going. If he was coming, with some smash, he had the advantage on me cause I wasn't sure that I should setup for a merge or for a pursuit.

Now with the + - thingy, I can tell in a instant, coming or going. Either way, + - or the old way, just as long as I can distingush the direction. Thats what SOME of us need to make the game enjoyable for US.

If HT decides to keep the + - thingy, maybe he can add to CNTRL-I "+ - Off" for those who think it clutters up the screen.

[Steve]

In real life, at 800 yards, one can quickly discern if an object is closing or going away.  Think about it:  If you are on a relatively flat highway and see a semi out in front of you at half a mile and you are closing on the semi at just 50MPH, how long will it take you to realize this?  If you are honest, you will say almost immediately.  The same can be said if the semi is going away at just 50MPH.  The back of a semi isn't any larger than the airplanes we are dealing w/ here in this game.

The 2 dimensional monitors we have are simply unable to simulate real life, 3 dimensional scenarios.  The +/- compensates for that.

AT 800 yards with out the +/- thingy he doesn’t really "know" if I am extending in the vertical or if he is closing. He may think twice about following me up. In AH1 he had by the yard range info.

What you are saying here is that you want to be able to take advantage of the inability of the computer to accurately depict 3 dimensions.  This isn't flight simming... it's gamey... far more gamey than the +/-, IMHO.

[Wotan]

In higher resolutions the planes are just dots(to my eyes) until very close. In lower resolutions the planes are a little more blocky and increasing/decreasing size is hard to detect.

So what if the planes are dots, the +\- didnt change that. They are still dots. You are looking at the icon to see the +/- thingy why not just read the icon, inside 400 fire, the +/- minus thingy does nothing to change that.

You keep opening w/ this spray and pray fantasy. I'm no sprayer and I like the old icon system.

Sure you spray and pray. That is what you just said, if all you see is a "dot"  what are you aiming at? You are just spraying at the dot.

Funny, I like it for the exact reason you don't. As I rope a bad guy, I can tell if I need to increase the angle on my spiral based on closure. I don't mind if they spray at 800 as I'll just spiral tighter than they can pull lead, thus avoiding the bullets.

You are using yoyo's and short sprint dives to stay on an enemy's rear quarter. The +/- thinige isn't going to aid your quarry one bit in this scenario. He's either going to be busy trying to shake you or else you're going to blast him while he watches the +/- on your icon.

Well yeah... Why zoom a 1000 yards when 500 will get me back in and keep the guy off balance?

You need to learn to anticipate when a guy is going to do this and get your nose down on him before he tries to execute this manuever. Was the same in AHI. You have to get your nose down on him BEFORE he tries to run. Thus when he DOES nose down to run, he's presenting a nice slow target for you.
I prefer to act instead of react.

Well that only works in a plane that has substantially better dive accelleration like your p51. In slower planes you need to be reversed before he does so you can close the distance before he runs. Hanging on your prop waiting for him to fall away doesnt work all the time.

A nice tight spiral in the vertical will force the guy to pull lead on his spray and bled him a bit faster. But If the plane chasing up has better dive accelleration and better top speed he simply runs away. When flying the fastest plane in the game this doesnt matter much.

But how is the +/- thingy helping me to see the guy better? I can just read the icon and see the actual plane wallowing and reverse.

Even at 200 yard increments the icons change. Even the +/- thingy doesnt show unless separation is at a given speed.

I ran down an la7 from 800 to 200yrds and the +/- never showed.

Just preferring Ah1's icons is onething, claims of "better vision" seem like so much BS to me.

BTW I wear glasses as well and have no issues in that regard. I do have a 21" monitor though @ 1024 x 768 32 bit 4 x AA.

[Steve]

if all you see is a "dot" what are you aiming at?

where did I say I was firing at said dot?   where?

[Steve]

I ran down an la7 from 800 to 200yrds and the +/- never showed.

This simulates slow closure.  In other words, as in real life, if the closure is relatively slow, it is harder to detect, thus the +/- never showed.  I would think you would like this feature.


Wotan, my comment about that you need to learn to  blah blah blah  was sarcasm buddy, I know you do just fine.

A nice tight spiral in the vertical will force the guy to pull lead on his spray and bled him a bit faster.

Yes, I love this move and marvel that almost no-one uses it.

Hanging on your prop waiting for him to fall away doesnt work all the time.

This is gambling, I prefer to spiral and pounce before he noses down.. maybe this is what you mean by wallowing.

[Wotan]

What you are saying here is that you want to be able to take advantage of the inability of the computer to accurately depict 3 dimensions. This isn't flight simming... it's gamey... far more gamey than the +/-, IMHO.

Nonsense at 800 yrds you can't tell if the guy is closing at 500 mph or 300mph.

You can't tell is hes directly head on or at an off angle across or below your forward view. (moving slightly left to create horizontal separation at the merge)

The brits in had trouble telling whether the guy they were shooting at was at 200yrds or 500 yrds in rl.

So what you say is just made up to support your view.

Besides in AH2 at 800yrds the icons change every 200 yrds, easy enough to judge closure in a h2h situation even at just 200 mph.

So don't bring "realism" into this. Because there is none.

As I said above you may prefer Ah1's icons but thats different soem of the expressed reasoning that makes no sense to me.

[Wotan]

Originally posted by Steve
where did I say I was firing at said dot?   where?

sarcasm as well I see your consistant 18% hit percentage and can see you dont "spray and pray".

But I think you can admit that there is quite a bit of spray.

We will just disagree on the icons, I have my preference and you have yours.