Author Topic: Wings magazine on the Luftwaffe (Read 870 times)

mauser · « **on:** November 22, 2000, 02:37:00 AM »

Has anyone else read the Dec 2000 issue of Wings magazine? It is devoted to an article by Joe Mizrahi on the Luftwaffe, entitled "The Face Of The Luftwaffe." It was pretty interesting reading as it touched on the changing fortunes of the Luftwaffe as the war progressed and some of the reasons why. Not having much experience with aviation references, anyone know how credible this article is? Anyway, it seemed to me that it explained pretty well why they (fortunately) lost. The RLM/Nazi high command basically had their heads up their.. somewheres... and made a whole lot of bad decisions, of course fortunately for us. For one thing, they didn't really build any great strategic bombers... in AH we have the JU-88 which was an excellent multirole aircraft. But for buffing purposes, not much beats the lanc for payload and the b17g for self-defense. Hm.. I sorta liken it to automobiles... I'm partial to German cars (can afford only a VW), but if I needed to buy a truck, I'd buy a US made truck. Likewise, I like flying the 190, but if I needed to lug around some heavy stuff into a hot area...
Back to history, as for the bad guys losing because they aren't very smart or they have too large an ego, history has shown us that isn't always the case unfortunately. I hope the ones who are supposed to lead our country don't get too overconfident b/c that'll only lead to trouble.

mauser

NUTTZ · « **Reply #1 on:** November 22, 2000, 01:58:00 PM »

Wings Mag about 3 years back had an artical on the politics of the 109 Vs. the 190 It was a great read. Politics ( and payoffs) play an important role in Many huge manufacturing and military contracts,,, heheh, "Business as usual" cuts threw all time and social barriers.

NUTTZ

juzz · « **Reply #2 on:** November 22, 2000, 04:17:00 PM »

Hmmm... I purchased one issue of WINGS on bomber defensive guns, and while the information presented was good, it seemed to be very pro-US. Probably just the author of that article I guess?

MaxImm · « **Reply #3 on:** November 22, 2000, 04:55:00 PM »

Without sounding like I favour one side or the other...

The axis powers lost the war for 3 reasons

1. Ego which lead to poor strategic decisions
2. Bad luck (especially with regard to the Battle at Midway and the Battle of Britain)
3. The overwhelming war machine that was and is the United States of America (Industry).

Having factories without fear of bomber attack at your disposal does help bring a decisive end to a conflict. Machines however do not fight and win wars, men do.
The fact that millions fought and lost their lives in this horrific conflict should not go unremembered. There were heros on both sides of this conflict. Most fought for theirs lives and not just for their political beleifs. This also should not be forgotten.

Thats enough of the history lesson.

miko2d · « **Reply #4 on:** November 22, 2000, 05:25:00 PM »

Ahh, where to start...

First, Germany did not start the Second World War. Allies did. Germany was never ready for it.
Germany was tricked by Russians to invade Poland. Hitled did not believe that England and France would declare war but Stalin knew that for sure. Stalin needed another world war and was pushing Hitler towards it. He expected to "liberate" Europe from Hitler. Luckily for us Hitler realized his plans and Stalin could only "liberate" half of Europe.

Hitler just expected to easily capture Poland, whose army was arranged for offence, not defence and for that reason vulnerable. Even then his offencive in Poland ground to a halt because of lack of supplies/ammunition and was only saved by russians hitting poles in the back.

Second, Germany did not have strategic bombers for the same reason Brits did not have tactical bombers - both were designing for the previous war from which they drew opposite and wrong conclusions.

Brits were terrified by a few bombs dropped by a few German bombers and zeppelins during the WWI. They were really scared what thousands of advanced bombers could do and build bombers of their own to serve as detractors to the future agressor. They did not see any value to the tactical bombers which proved inefficient.
At the same time germans saw that the "strategic bombings" did not have any military value and decided to only build tactical ones.

Whan the war started germans had nothing to seriously hit enemy economy with.
Neither did brits - their unescorted strategic bombers could only be used at night against the population centers.

That continued untill heavily-defended and numerous american bombers escorted to the target and back could destroy the german economy.

They were doomed anyway against such odds. Russians were able to advance without strategic bombers or air superiority.

miko

Pongo · « **Reply #5 on:** November 23, 2000, 09:17:00 AM »

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA
man thats bad.
Milko. You have been schooled by someone that practices the "tell a big enough lie" school of rewriting history. Scary stuff.

Glasses · « **Reply #6 on:** November 23, 2000, 10:58:00 AM »

Am not defending anyone's beliefs or anything BUT what miko just said might be possible. Can it be that the western powers just feed into our books and common knowledge
false statements to justify what they''ve done. Just the same as the SS did back in Germany.

I think Miko that statement might be true Stalin was a backstabber but then again Hitler also wanted war from the begining he wanted to baptize his newly reformed Wermacht with blood and fire,but he had to postpone each time he had a chance, because people always seeded(spell) to what he wanted. Always wanted an attack to justify itself , looked for legal reasons to do so... The thing is up to '39 no one wanted to fight Germany untill they unleashed the Blitz on Poland and untill then no one declared war ,suure Britain was pissed the French crap their pants("we're next") but not untill Germany invaded France that Britain declared war on Germany. Many times each side tryed to avoid war even Hit;er's generals but he wanted it from the start he didn't war a full scale war but just enough to take back his supposed Lebensraum and restore the glory of his Country(i.e. revenge for WWI)

later

------------------
Glasses---I may have 4 eyes ,but you only have one wing.

[This message has been edited by Glasses (edited 11-23-2000).]

Pongo · « **Reply #7 on:** November 23, 2000, 11:02:00 AM »

War was declared on the invasion of poland not france.

Torque · « **Reply #8 on:** November 23, 2000, 12:34:00 PM »

Miko and Glasses what is the color of the sky on your planet?

[This message has been edited by Torque (edited 11-23-2000).]

hazed- · « **Reply #9 on:** November 23, 2000, 12:42:00 PM »

MIKO absolute roadkill.
I suggest you read mein kampf and realise that theres never been such an insight into the workings of a brutal and murderous dictator.
Hitler invaded poland and was intent on destroying the 'bolshevists' from the outset of hostillities,but he didnt want a war on 2 fronts.His intention was a quick end to the war in the west and then to turn on the russian 'bolshevists' whom he considered to be worse than the Jews and i pray you do not forget what he did to them.
For you to suggest that Stalin wanted another world war at the time poland was invaded is ludicrous!.Russian army was a war machine left in the 18th century at that time and stalin knew it.They had horse drawn artillery!

.He needed time to organise and build for the coming Nazi threat which he must surely have expected as their ideologies were so different.
The russian/german pact was merely to hold off a war in the east until hitler could free his army from the west.There were those that said Hitler, right up to the end of the war, hoped that the allies would join germany and push the bolshivics out of europe! jesus he was a loon.
'Stalin tricked Hitler into attacking poland'?
This would be the funniest statement ive ever heard if it wasnt for the seriousness of your misgivings!.Thousands upon thousands of polish civilians and soldiers alike perished at the hands of Germany and it was Hitlers INTENT!.Do not try to tell us he did it because he was tricked.
Miko why dont you read 'second world war' by martin gilbert (isbn 1-85799-346-2).It may open your eyes to the truth.

Hazed
Sorry for sounding off at you but this is an emotional subject.

juzz · « **Reply #10 on:** November 23, 2000, 12:59:00 PM »

"There were those that said Hitler, right up to the end of the war, hoped that the allies would join germany and push the bolshivics out of europe!"

Quote

What a bitter, tragic farce it is, I reflect, for the democracies of the West to have become brothers-in-arms with the Bolshevists! In the East, German soldiers have been waging for years a heroic battle against Soviet Communism. They are fighting top save, not Germany alone, but the whole fabric of Western civilisation from the threatening Asiatic World Revolution. We should come to terms with the Western Powers as quickly as possible, and unite with them in a common front against the forces of Bolshevism - the arch-enemy of liberty, humanity and our civilisation in general.
If this war ends in the collapse of Germany, it will mean a mighty and decisive victory for the forces of Bolshevism and World Revolution.

There's a few more similar quotes in the same book - I Flew for the Fuhrer, by Heinz Knoke.

mauser · « **Reply #11 on:** November 23, 2000, 02:10:00 PM »

Wow.. this isn't what I expected. Anyway, I agree with MaxImm's statements. The war was a terrible waste of lives and was due to the extremely misguided intentions of a few.
Communism has collapsed in Europe fortunately, however the most stubborn still cling to it. It's probably due to the old-fashioned "saving face" stuff that makes the leaders of the remaining communist powers put their people into poverty/suffering in order to keep the government alive. But that's off topic.

mauser

newguy · « **Reply #12 on:** November 23, 2000, 02:19:00 PM »

yup Miko, you need to study ww2 a little more. Unless of course that was a troll, and in that case, nice one.

Vulcan · « **Reply #13 on:** November 23, 2000, 02:40:00 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Torque:
Miko and Glasses what is the color of the sky on your planet?

[This message has been edited by Torque (edited 11-23-2000).]

I dunno what colour their sky is BUT MAN I WANT THAT toejam THEIR SMOKIN!!!!!

Fishu · « **Reply #14 on:** November 23, 2000, 04:00:00 PM »

Well.. germans actually tried to get peace with the brits after they got pissed off when they were driven off from france.
(didn't brits sunk few french ships before germans had their forces all over, so germans wouldn't get french ships?)

Poland, nobody cared of it..
I don't think that war was 'declared' because of poland, but it started from there.

well.. thats how I remember it from that time when I read more history about the cause of WW2.
Brits would had literally (hmm.. they actually did so) gave over the poland without war, so it couldn't been "war was declared on the invasion of poland, not france"

well.. correct me if I am wrong.