Author Topic: Maybe time for night again?  (Read 826 times)

Offline Kev367th

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Maybe time for night again?
« on: July 04, 2004, 03:19:42 PM »
Would be more fun with stuff like this.



Maybe a slight change in selection whereby if you select any ord you cant have the night skin for fighters etc.
« Last Edit: July 04, 2004, 03:25:13 PM by Kev367th »
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Offline mojo55

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Maybe time for night again?
« Reply #1 on: July 04, 2004, 03:59:26 PM »
Slide gamma all the way left for night time view :aok

Offline Kev367th

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Maybe time for night again?
« Reply #2 on: July 04, 2004, 04:07:54 PM »
I know, but never did that anyway.
Somehow disabling it would make things real fun.
Imagine a night furball with all night fighter skins.
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Offline BlueJ1

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Maybe time for night again?
« Reply #3 on: July 04, 2004, 04:48:32 PM »
I miss night time. Use to climb up to 12k in my 190 d9 and cherry pick the furballers. If they bring back night, if you dont like it log off for a few. Disable gamma once night hits, just like missions were disabled when night hit. And if you need to cheat and move the gamma, that proves your just sad that you need to cheat at a night SIM. I imagine any pilots in WWII would be more then happy with a gamma bar in the cockpit to "cheat".
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Offline J_A_B

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Maybe time for night again?
« Reply #4 on: July 04, 2004, 04:49:04 PM »
God I hated night, almost as much as I hated fuel porking.

Night was the only thing that could cause MA numbers to noticably (and inevitably) decrease the moment dusk fell.  Not even the fuel porking did that.  

AH2 is fun largely because there's no night and no porked fuel, seeing as those are about the only signifigant changes to the air war in the MA between AH2 and AH. Still, night has its place (special events and such) so I am just not completely against its existance....I just hated seeing it in the MA.   The MA is a place where you should ALWAYS be able to take off and quickly find some action.  There shouldn't be a crapshoot when you log on of "maybe i'll be able to see" or "maybe I'll have enough fuel" or "maybe i'll have a means of locating the enemy" (bar dar).

The MA still isn't perfect.  Sector counters need to be made undestroyable and bases need to be closer on most maps...but yeah we already have a 100% improvement in fun over what AH was.


I sort of miss the rainstorms though and wouldn't mind seeing them return, provided the framerate hit would be minimal.


J_A_B

Offline Kev367th

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Maybe time for night again?
« Reply #5 on: July 04, 2004, 05:01:43 PM »
Unfortuneately I disagree on most of your points.
If this is a 'Sim' and not a game (as advertised), then why should DAR be undestroyable, why should fuel be unporkable etc etc.
Seems as though peolple only want the realism that suits their gameplay, e.g lets have more realistic ballistics and flight models but we don't want anything else that gets in the way, or happens to be inconvenient. Make a choice one way or another.
Just how close do want bases, the majority (not all) are within 25 miles of each other, any closer we could fire at each other at the ends of the runways.
This is why in another post I said we are have two ways of playing that CANNOT co-exist as things stand. Some prefer furballs others building battling. At the moment the "Sim" is heavily biased towards the furballers.
« Last Edit: July 04, 2004, 05:06:32 PM by Kev367th »
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Offline BlueJ1

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Maybe time for night again?
« Reply #6 on: July 04, 2004, 05:06:08 PM »
I understand where your coming from J_A_B, your perspective is that of a furballer, no offense intended. I myself and a porker. I like to beable to beable to change a course of a battle. This is my perspective. Night has nothing to do with porking. Its just an aspect of everyday life, unless you live by the poles, that I believe should be included in the game.

And aint it Dar Bar ???
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Offline J_A_B

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Maybe time for night again?
« Reply #7 on: July 04, 2004, 06:29:35 PM »
Man I keep trying to explain how i am NOT against air-to-ground combat (I know i sometimes seem as though I am) and actually feel everything should have an inportant role in AH, but my post keeps growing too long.

Just let me say this--I have nothing against various styles of fighting, only how they are implemented in AH.  


As for what to "simulate"?  

Simulate the fight...be it A2A or A2G.  Get rid of the non-fighting stuff or reduce it to a bare minimum without resorting to things like air starts or such nonsense.

Seriously...even for the people who mostly fly JABO planes....do you have more fun flying in on your bomb run, dodging the ack and enemy fighters while trying to hit your target, or on a 30 mile climbout from your base?  I frequently hear stuff like "OMG I can't believe I just hit that FH with those Spits on my 6 like that hahaha they augered chasing me!!!!"  

When was the last time you heard someone say "OMG I just took off and climbed to 20K man I'm sweatin from the excitement"?

The fun is in the kill, in the success of your objective, in the fight.  That is what separates a game like AH from something like MSFS2004.


Perhaps, in AH, "furball" and "building battling" are indeed mutually exclusive.  This means that the AH strat system probably needs work.



J_A_B

Offline jaxxo

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Maybe time for night again?
« Reply #8 on: July 04, 2004, 06:41:06 PM »
Nightime was fun..bring it on.

Offline jaxxo

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Maybe time for night again?
« Reply #9 on: July 04, 2004, 06:41:21 PM »
Nightime was fun..bring it on.

Offline jaxxo

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Maybe time for night again?
« Reply #10 on: July 04, 2004, 06:42:39 PM »
sorry..internet lag :(

Offline Kev367th

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Maybe time for night again?
« Reply #11 on: July 04, 2004, 06:44:58 PM »
Strats need overhauling - OMG finally we agree on something J.A.B ;) . Guess it won't matter now the end of the world is near.

What is the non-fighting stuff?

Actually MSFS2004 has its own level of satisfaction for lots and lots of peolple. I would guess that more people own FS2004 than play AH2.
« Last Edit: July 04, 2004, 06:48:32 PM by Kev367th »
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Offline J_A_B

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Maybe time for night again?
« Reply #12 on: July 04, 2004, 07:36:01 PM »
Wasn't trying to badmouth MSFS200X or any such games, just pointing out that they're a different breed of animal than AH.


I consider "non-fighting stuff" to be...well....stuff you are doing when you're not fighting, or perhaps more accurately things which make it harder/more time-consuming on a global level to reach combat.

I'm not worried about limting action on a local level; indeed, this is required in order to capture bases and such.  If you are going to have a moving front, then you HAVE to have some means of limiting the enemy's ability to fight on a local level in order to permit the capture of territory--or to slow an advance.  As such, Tactical airstrikes (air-to-ground fighters) are an integral part of the game (so much for me hating the building battlers, huh?).

What I dislike is when something happens that makes it harder to operate anywhere in the entire arena, be it player-caused or environmental.

It's the difference between seeing one base at 25% fuel (you can take off somewhere else) and seeing EVERY base at 25% fuel (game breaker).  Or it's the difference between losing Dot-radar (doesn't affect ability to find the fight) and losing sector counters (now you don't know if that horde of friendlies you're following is heading to a huge fight or an undefended base).  Or it's even the difference between a 3-5 minute climbout after takeoff (check map and form a plan) or a 10-15 minute climbout (go afk and BBQ a steak).

None of these are "furball centric"....A2G guys need to know where the enemy is--It is useless to hit the FH of an empty base, and it is Equally useless to attempt a NOE capture run to a base with 30 enemies around it!  It is also to their benefit to have shorter non-combat flight times because it means more ordnance delivered per hour.  Night-time is probably the only one of the "combat inhibiting factors" which don't really affect the air-to-ground guys too much (it arguably benefits them) while massively affecting the air-to-air fighting. This is why night is probably the hardest to form a middle-ground between the different players.   In all situations compromises are possible.


This is why I liked the local storms...it gave the A2G guys a certain level of cover to operate from in crowded airspace while having almost no negative effect on the air-to-air guys (you could simply fly over it or fly somewhere else).  In other words, storms did the same thing as night, but were a local condition instead of an arena-wide condition.   Allowing for clouds at different or lower altitudes would be even better--as long as framerates could handle it!

And yes, AH's strat system could use some signifigant tweaks.  If nothing else at least we can agree on that.


J_A_B

Offline BlueJ1

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Maybe time for night again?
« Reply #13 on: July 04, 2004, 08:06:01 PM »
I agree with you J_A_B. I also realized that  A2A guys are in it for the action of dogfights and non stop fun. Theres nothing wrong with that and I wish my p38 could climb fast enough to have nonstop action like you guys. A2G guys are not asking for complete porking of bases. Just something to beable to slow the hordes. Would A2A guys have a problem with maybe night time but only half the normal amount of time it was in AH1 ? My reasons for night is not porking based. I just found I had more fun in the night dodging groups of high alt planes and attacking unsuspecting planes. Right now I have no problme getting to a base to pork troops or ord. Im not worried about being discovered. I also agree weather should be brought into AH2, ONLY after the majority of the bugs have been eliminated and FR permiting.
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Offline Kev367th

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Maybe time for night again?
« Reply #14 on: July 04, 2004, 09:25:36 PM »
Surely part of the game would be to make hard for people, or we would be back to lazer 20mms, easier fms, dayglo aircraft and so on. I prefer it to be 'not easy', if that means going back a sector for fuel, so be it. Think we definately need some form of input from HT on this and the night subject.
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