Bullets

[easymo]

 A statement attributed to pyro went by without much comment. I feel it might make a huge change in gameplay. They are moving the bullet flight path more to the center of the cone. This sounds like a big move towards more HO,ing spits, and wounded pilots to me.

 I know. I should wait until it comes out to start whining  . Just expressing a concern.

[Maverick]

Easy,

I think you will also see a lot more long distance hits with a more centralized cone of fire. That means more damage in the center of the fire stream and longer range probability of hits.

Those who think the chog and other hispano cannon birds are bad now will certainly be crying in their beer more in the future.

Mav

[Vosper]

I would expect this would occur only if the target is centred in the stream.  Right now the chance of being hit is equal anywhere in the cone, whereas it's going to be increased in the centre, but lessened in the outer edges.

To me this means needing more accuracy, or else expect fewers pings?

Cheers

[SOB]

Of course, it'll also mean that .50 cals with generally more guns firing, and a higher rate of fire than cannons will get a big shot in the arm.  That's a positive though, so leave my pom poms in the closet, and not metion it!  


SOB

[easymo]

 There is bound to be an up, and down side to anything they do to the game. My concern is, with the notable exception of disappearing icons, every change has made the game easier. Weaker 20mm, easier FM, super osty (why learn to fly at all?). Now with less dispersion it looks like easier gunnery. You can still duck an HO with a spit now. But after the MG,s turn into lasers, will you still be able too. Where do you think this is heading guys?

[SKurj]

This gunnery model change is more realistic.  If u couldn't hit before, you will have a harder time than before.
With the change the odds of a hit being more devastating of course will increase.

Anyone whinin about HO'n spits need to learn not to attack them headon +)

SKurj

[SOB]

 

Originally posted by easymo:
There is bound to be an up, and down side to anything they do to the game. My concern is, with the notable exception of disappearing icons, every change has made the game easier. Weaker 20mm, easier FM, super osty (why learn to fly at all?). Now with less dispersion it looks like easier gunnery. You can still duck an HO with a spit now. But after the MG,s turn into lasers, will you still be able too. Where do you think this is heading guys?

Well, I don't know about the weaker 20mm and easier FM (and neither do you from what I've seen), so I just trust in what Pyro has said about them being changed toward the more realistic.  It's also been backed up pretty well by the guys here who seem to know this kind of stuff...still waiting to look at Badboy's report...should be interesting.  

I personally think the Osty is too tough to kill from a topside attack against the turret...logic tells me that bullets of any caliber our planes carry flying toward the gunner's seat in the turret should put him out of action pretty quick - no need for much technical knowledge here, but I also haven't filmed myself trying to kill one and sent it in to Pyro for his review/opinion.  I've only been in a situation once where I was able to continuously fire my guns at an osty without him firing back at me(causing me to break off), and after the pass with quite a few good hits on my FE he was still firing on my field...since this was only one incident tho', there could be other explanations.

As for bullet dispersion, I would think that this would reward good gunnery, as well as good evasives.  With more bullets flying toward convergence, you'd be less likely to hit someone if your aim is a little off.  My guess is that this will be especially beneficial when you're being fired at by hispanos.  I guess we'll find out when 1.05 comes out though.

Either way, just sit back, relax and smile...the niki is getting more ammo - and that IS historically accurate!  


SOB

[easymo]

 On the 20mm, I called them on it. And they admitted that they had made them weaker. On the FM, I have not seen one post complaining that the FM got harder in 1.04. I've seen a number complaining that it got easier. On the osty, You figured this one out your self. So I feel, I do know something about it.

[SOB]

Actually, what I'm referring to is (simulated) realism versus non-realism.  Not harder versus easier.  I prefer more realism...in whatever form it takes.  Would you rather have hard just for the sake of it being harder?

[juzz]

Anyone remember when gravity was double for bullets? Did that fix suddenly boost the accuracy of long range gunnery like some thought would occur?

The current uniform scatter makes it EASIER to get hits at long range, especially in the B-17 with 3 turrets firing at a target, where you can often get hits at distances of 1500 yards.

Like SOB said; .50in and other high ROF weapons will get a boost, especially with wing guns near convergence setting, as more of your salvo will actually hit if your shooting is spot on. If your aim is off a bit though, you will get less hits than currently.

[Citabria]

p38 is going to kick bellybutton  

[easymo]

 SOB. If you check around the net. And go back far enough, you will find that in one way or another every prop sim producer has said that realism is impossible. Here HT has pointed out that the real joysticks stay where they are put. They don't recenter themselves. That changes everything. Others like the guy that does AW have said outright that with the technology we have now its impossible. So realism is just a word that flight sim fans like to toss around. It is general enough to cover a lot of sins.

 Anyway, to answer you question. I would say I like a more interesting FM. Harder is another subjective word. So I'll just say  Ver. 1.03 was a lot more interesting.

[SOB]

Yup, that's why I said 'simulated' realism.  They do their best to make it come out as close to the real-life numbers as they can.  I think HTC does a good job in trying to achieve this, and the change in E retention from 1.03 to 1.04 is a direct result.

I'd say 1.04 is plenty interesting...I've been in some beautiful dogfights that wouldn't have been possible with 1.03.  With the new e-retention, most any plane in your field of view is a potential threat, even if you see them as being a bit low when you're diving into the fray.  Now 1.05 is going to change the hit cone with a larger percentage of bullets at the center...P51s, that I pretty much ignore currently, will be a much bigger threat if they have a decent pilot behind the controls.

There are new challenges with each new version...good or bad, I guess it's all in how you look at it.  Worrying about a 'what if' problem before it even has a chance to occur isn't going to get you anywhere.


SOB

[GRUNHERZ]

HI

I dont know exactly what pyro means by moving the fire more into a central cone, but it kinda looks like there might be less disperion of bullets, which will make for more of those exciting, wonderful, and oh so realistic 1k hispano kills! Yea great!!  

thanks GRUNHERZ

[juzz]

When a gun is fired in AH, each bullet has a slightly different initial angle, to represent various real-life causes of bullet dispertion(eg: gun flexing on its mounts).

If a target board was placed downrange, firing a large number of bullets would describe a circle, with impacts evenly spread out inside it.

As the target board was placed further away, this circle would obviously get larger, but the impacts would still be evenly dispersed within it.

If an a/c entered that circle, it would have the same probability of having a hit scored on it if it was in the centre, or only at the edge.

Do you think that makes achieving hits at long range easier, or harder?

Imagine a graph of radius vs bullet strike "density". Currently it would be a horizontal line, indicating that impacts are evenly spread out. What HTC are doing is to increase the number of impacts nearer the centre of the circle. So a new graph would look like the right half of a "bell curve", with a higher "density" of impacts at distances closer to the centre of the circle.

What that will mean is that a target at the edge of the circle will have a lesser probability of taking a hit than one which is directly in the centre.

Do you think that will make long range gunnery easier, or harder?