Author Topic: Ok It happened again to me. (Read 1219 times)

Morpheus · « **on:** July 08, 2004, 08:42:07 PM »

Is it just happening to me or has anyone else gotten in to the stall/flatspin from hell in the P38?

I mean last night I was winging with stang in 38s... We were BS'n on text and noticed that we were at 15k so we were about to go LVL when stang starts yelling "Tempest! Tempest!". Without hesitation I hit flaps and break off to the right. IAS was about 200mph.

I dont know how I didn't lose more parts but I only took hits to one engine oil and a fuel tank from the temp. After he overshot I pulled the nose back up from beneath him and I lost all controls. The plane literally started falling out of the sky. When I lost control I was at about 225+mph... Slow but not too slow and the manuver I was making I had made a hundred times before but this time the plane just didn't like it.

Anyways.. I fell from 15k down to 5K before I could regain control. I had almost given up but I was so agrivated that the plane wasn't doing what it should do and has done many times before I kept on trying. I have no idea what I did to get out of the stall... I couldnt get the nose down enough to get up speed for controled flight... But slowly I had gotten the nose down and out of the horrible flat spin and pulled out just in time. The whole time I was in the stall it said I was doing a little over 100mph. You can keep in a climb at just over 90 and sometimes less. I tried to recreate this stall but it just wouldnt do it again.

I have posted on this problem before and PYRO made some adjustments to the 38 that seemed to correct some problems that people were having. I thought this was one of them... Until last night that is.

Dont get me wrong. I love how the 38 handles. It flys like a dream... When it is flying that is...

But... But... But...

This stall/flatspin that was nearly imposible to get out of is a bit much. And seemed a bit wrong.

SLO · « **Reply #1 on:** July 08, 2004, 09:13:26 PM »

exactly why I don't fly it.....

I have a tendency to pull quickly on stick for maneuvers....and that ain't good in a 38....

always get caught with that damn snap....

Morpheus · « **Reply #2 on:** July 08, 2004, 09:26:29 PM »

Yeah... I know what you mean but thats not really what I am refering to here slo. In AH1 you used to be able to pull back on the stick and going into a constant spin... It was one of the most comical things I think I've seen. Not saying that it was right but it was also very controlable. Once you let go of the stick it would pretty much get out of the spin on its own.

Last night I was in more of a flatspin than anything else. The 38 really doesn't like to make flat turns. If you make your turns at more of an angled form she will reverse or break turn very well and very fast. I really do not know how I got into this very bad flat spin. But it was a bad one to say the very least.

But that quick and sudden snap roll is one that is very easy to get out of and recover from relativley fast.

Bah... I dont know... Maybe this is the way the 38 should be. I'd like to think not and certainly hope not. But from what I've read about it, this isn't the P38L that was as forgiving at slow speeds and stalls in real life. But again, this isn't real life and I have never flown a P38. God wouldn't that be the coolest thing evar! hehehe

I could crash it and die (which i probably would anyways if I were to attempt to fly one) and I would die a happy man with a on my face.

Wadke · « **Reply #3 on:** July 08, 2004, 09:38:07 PM »

Try the P-40 yet Morpheus?.....It snaps very bad at low speeds and since i never have much altitude it's not recoverable....ask ramzey...he saw me do it last night.... But i guess it is pretty much historical as P-40s did have a great tendency to snap roll and stall out at low speeds and low alt...A bunch of real life pilots died from this

Morpheus · « **Reply #4 on:** July 08, 2004, 10:12:44 PM »

Absolutly Wadke. It seems a little more 'telegraphic' though with the P40. I mean you pretty much know its going to snap before it does.

And again this wasn't a snap roll

Rather the plane just lost all controled foward flight and fell out of the sky nearly 10,000 feet before I was able to regain control. To me that just aint right.

So, I just want to make it clear that this isn't a 'snap roll' that is happening.

It just let go of the sky and fell outof the sky. The nose was almost imposible to get pointed down.

At low alt I could and would expect to hit the ground in a fairly bad stall. But to have to use up 10,000 feet in order to regain control... Again, IMHO something just isn't right here.

Overlag · « **Reply #5 on:** July 08, 2004, 10:27:19 PM »

it is still beta you know........

no wait errrr.....

killnu · « **Reply #6 on:** July 08, 2004, 10:30:47 PM »

kill throttle, push nose down, with ruddr if needed, then throttle up? works for me.
~S~

nopoop · « **Reply #7 on:** July 08, 2004, 10:43:23 PM »

Side note. I seem to recall a few warbird pilot manuals that state, do NOT spin the aircraft.

If you think about it Ethell was a top shelf warbird pilot. They're dangerous when "stuff" happens.

It isn't a cessna 150.

2 centavos, ducketts, beggeeta's..

Octavius · « **Reply #8 on:** July 08, 2004, 11:04:21 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Wadke
Try the P-40 yet Morpheus?.....It snaps very bad at low speeds and since i never have much altitude it's not recoverable....ask ramzey...he saw me do it last night.... But i guess it is pretty much historical as P-40s did have a great tendency to snap roll and stall out at low speeds and low alt...A bunch of real life pilots died from this

Definitely Wadke. It's happened to me twice and both times were with massive flap usage. You're able to pull a huge AoA, but while you're in the process, you can really feel your bellybutton slide right out in front of you. It *is* recoverable but it comes with a BIG altitude loss. If you're under 2k forget it

Captain Virgil Hilts · « **Reply #9 on:** July 08, 2004, 11:06:15 PM »

Must be pilot error on the part of a totally incompetent pilot. After all, I've been hearing that for quite some time now. I'm sure several of the experts, the ones who neither fly nor study the P-38, will be in here soon to tell you the P-38 had terrible stall characteristics and you suck as a pilot. Interesting how that works, isn't it?

It doesn't happen often, just once in a while, but they sure are exceptionally nasty aren't they? No rhyme or reason either.

The manual said don't spin it at low altitude.

And Ethell was killed by a combination of things that included a modified plane, and a lack of experience in the P-38. It is sad that he was infact killed by the very errors he wrote about in his last article. On the other hand, a very famous author who is an expert on the P-38 and who knew Ethell once told me that not all that is known about the crash has been written, and that much of what has been written does not at all add up.

MetaTron · « **Reply #10 on:** July 08, 2004, 11:24:01 PM »

I always thought the P-38 should have nasty habits like that at high bank angles and g forces. Shouldn't it?

Urchin · « **Reply #11 on:** July 08, 2004, 11:36:30 PM »

Everything I've read about it said the P-38 had no tendency to flat-spin... the stall under "clean" configuration was a mushing of the nose downward.

I'll have to grab my copy of AHT and copy & paste (well, type anyway) the section on the stall characteristics of the P-38. Tommorrow I will.

Morpheus · « **Reply #12 on:** July 08, 2004, 11:41:05 PM »

Quote

I'm sure several of the experts, the ones who neither fly nor study the P-38, will be in here soon to tell you the P-38 had terrible stall characteristics and you suck as a pilot.

heh.

I dont know why but for some reason I couldn't care less. lol I mean really this is a game. If they want to be Mr GQ of the sky or atleast think they are more power to them. If a game means that much to them and their pathedick little lives then I think they deserve the stardom.

At one point in the game I honestly did care about becoming better. And spent quite a bit of time working at it. Now, for some odd reason I... well Idontgiveadam

Can I be any more clear? heh

Anyways... I see that some of our 'stars' are ariving so I'll hand the mic over and let them wow the crowd.

Really now the only reason I even sign on is to say hello to my buds in the game and maybe get a kill or two. Care less about the kills tho.

TweetyBird · « **Reply #13 on:** July 08, 2004, 11:51:45 PM »

I think there is an issue where the FE loses data. I've landed a few times and the breaks stick at a certain point - i.e, they work but at certain point the plane quits slowing down. Pull up the nose at 40 mph and still rolling strong:) Cant tell you how many times I've had to drive back onto the runway because of this. I think the same lack of data could cause the spin you are talking about.

TequilaChaser · « **Reply #14 on:** July 09, 2004, 12:04:49 AM »

In everything I have read/studied regarding spins, it always came that a vertical spin/tail spin was most times recoverable, but the horizontal/flat spin was nearly impossible to recover from. As for your speed showing near 100, that seems odd as you put it, you would think it would be showing "0" until you popped out/gained control then it would jump to the correct IAS...........

disclaimer: I am not an expert, I do not fly the AH2 38 much, and I know not as much as the Pro's that claim they do!;)