Author Topic: Most overrated Flight charicteristics (Read 2504 times)

GODO · « **Reply #15 on:** July 15, 2004, 01:47:28 PM »

I would say both dive and zoom were performed with shallow angles. 10k 200mph full power and the zeke needed 30 seconds to reach 325mph ...

AH2 A6M5 needs no more than 8 seconds from 200mph to 325mph in a pronounced dive from 10k.

Nashwan · « **Reply #16 on:** July 15, 2004, 02:28:08 PM »

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Well it took me a while because it is 8meg and I had to empty allot of stuff of my web storage but I got it in there.

Thanks for the effort, it's much appreciated.

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The same is true of this test. Starting at 210IAS sets the US aircraft up in a situation they should never be in, as the A6M5 demostrates in the test. The American aircraft are unable to get out of the A6M5's gun range in anything like a fast enough time.

Agreed, but looking at the report, they ran zoom climbs from a dive, at 310 IAS at 10,000ft and 25,000 ft. That's pretty fast.

And yet under these conditions, stopping the test when 130 IAS is reached (which again penalises the Zeke, which should be able to hang on it's prop better), the P-51 still only opens a 500 ft gap, the P-38 J only 300 feet.

gripen · « **Reply #17 on:** July 15, 2004, 05:56:26 PM »

Thanks F4UDOA, good stuff!

gripen

GScholz · « **Reply #18 on:** July 15, 2004, 06:38:14 PM »

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Originally posted by GODO
I would say both dive and zoom were performed with shallow angles. 10k 200mph full power and the zeke needed 30 seconds to reach 325mph ...

AH2 A6M5 needs no more than 8 seconds from 200mph to 325mph in a pronounced dive from 10k.

I think some of you misunderstand.

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Originally posted by F4UDOA
After the Zeke reached the preset redline of 325MPH IAS the following was noted.

P-51D-5- Had a 200 yard lead after 27 seconds.

P-38J- Had a 200 yard lead after 30 seconds.

P-47-D30- Had 100 Yard lead after 30 seconds. (Surprise!)

It took the P-51 27 seconds to pull a 200 yard lead AFTER the Zeke had reached it's redline 325mph IAS (400-420mph TAS?), meaning they didn't start the clock until the Zeke was going as fast as it could (or should).

Widewing · « **Reply #19 on:** July 15, 2004, 08:06:53 PM »

Some information is missing, such as dive angle.

Besides, the last time I saw a P-51 doing 200 mph, it was landing.

My regards,

Widewing

GScholz · « **Reply #20 on:** July 15, 2004, 08:44:52 PM »

P-51 had a cruising speed of 275 mph.

VooDoo · « **Reply #21 on:** July 15, 2004, 11:23:50 PM »

Thank you very much F4UDOA !

straffo · « **Reply #22 on:** July 16, 2004, 03:00:37 AM »

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Originally posted by Karnak
Also, nobody is talking about cruising around at MIL. The correct tactics for an American aircraft in the Pacific Theater are to fly at a higher alt than the Japanese do. The American fighter should be the attacker and you do not enter combat at cruise power.

I was just trying to point that the lesson from this test were not necessary applicable in our context.

GODO · « **Reply #23 on:** July 16, 2004, 03:48:25 AM »

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Originally posted by GScholz
I think some of you misunderstand.

I interpret that just when Zeke reached 325mph the results were noted and test finished. 325mph probably was considered max top safe speed (described as red line) for that "damaged" Zeke, so substaining the dive and the test beyond that point would have little sense.

GScholz · « **Reply #24 on:** July 16, 2004, 04:09:06 AM »

No, when the Zeke reached 325mph the test started. 27 seconds AFTER that the P-51 had a 200 yard lead over the Zeke which is still doing 325mph IAS. At least that's how I read it.

Crumpp · « **Reply #25 on:** July 16, 2004, 07:28:14 AM »

Whatever is speculated, the results of mock combat are found on page 3 of the report.

The P51, P38, and P47 ALL could engage and disengage from a zeke at will.

If there is one flight characteristic that is over-rated in WWII planes, it has to be turning circle.

Crumpp

GODO · « **Reply #26 on:** July 16, 2004, 08:09:17 AM »

GScholz, the test description is clear enough and easy to read:

"Zeke 52 vs P51D-5
Dive acceleration.
(a) 10000 feet. Dives were begun from level flight line abreast formation at 200 IAS, with full power applied as the dive was entered. The P51D began to pull ahead immediately. The selected redline airspeed (325 IAS) of the zeke was reached after 27 seconds. At this time the P51D had a lead of aproximately 200 yards.

Zeke 52 vs P38J-25
Dive acceleration.
(a) 10000 feet. Dives were begun from leve flight at 200 IAS. The P38J began to accelerate away shortly after the dive was entered. At the end of 30 seconds (when the zeke had reached maximum allowable IAS), the P38J was aproximately 200 yards ahead.

Zeke 52 vs P47D30
Dive acceleration.
(a) 10000 feet. The P47D was aproximately 100 yards ahead 30 seconds after the beginning of the dive."

The test against navy planes also indicates excesive vibrations in the zeke diving at speeds above 250 knots.

Dux · « **Reply #27 on:** July 16, 2004, 09:05:46 AM »

This is interesting stuff... can you elaborate on just how the A6M was "malfunctioning"?

Angus · « **Reply #28 on:** July 16, 2004, 01:48:50 PM »

So, lower than 10K in a wild dogfight, the US planes would not be able to pull out? Would be interesting to know a tad more about the acceleration from stall to say 200 mph.
Anyway, under those circumstances, the turning ability is anything but overrated.....

GODO · « **Reply #29 on:** July 16, 2004, 02:46:00 PM »

AH2 A6M5 reach 531mph in 19 seconds diving vertically from 10k and starting at 200 IAS, 100% fuel, above that, plane disintegrates.