Author Topic: Erich Rudorffer HE Is the BEST WWII Pilot  (Read 4950 times)

Offline B17Skull12

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Erich Rudorffer HE Is the BEST WWII Pilot
« Reply #15 on: July 16, 2004, 01:02:20 PM »
Bug.  2 different "armies".  Luftwaffe ran the prison camps only.  Gestapo did the killing.
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Offline simshell

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Erich Rudorffer HE Is the BEST WWII Pilot
« Reply #16 on: July 16, 2004, 02:41:10 PM »
i wonder how many times he bailed out

alot of those aces hit the silk many of time
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Offline Wotan

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Erich Rudorffer HE Is the BEST WWII Pilot
« Reply #17 on: July 16, 2004, 02:42:58 PM »
Erich Rudorffer scored a total of 224 victories, placing him 7th on the all time list. He flew over 1,000 missions, entered combat on 302 occasions, was shot down 16 times, and baled out 9 times!

Offline kj714

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Erich Rudorffer HE Is the BEST WWII Pilot
« Reply #18 on: July 16, 2004, 02:56:08 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Goth
According to what I read, which I haven't done in a long time, the Battle of Britain and the eastern front pretty much decimated the number of experienced pilots. Yeah, the Americans still flew against a few of the elite in Africa, but by the end of Africa and shortly into the Italian war, Germany had pretty much lost all hope of winning.


I answered off the cuff, and stand corrected. The Eastern Front did account for much of the attrition of the Luftwaffe. The Allies contributed for the most part by bombing fuel and production factories to smithereens reducing training and flight capabilities and also most German recruits were thrown into the ground war, reducing the number of candidates for flight school.

However, the Luftwaffe by most accounts held on pretty well until 1943 or so, and then fell off a cliff.

Offline Oldman731

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Erich Rudorffer HE Is the BEST WWII Pilot
« Reply #19 on: July 16, 2004, 03:28:29 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Goth
According to what I read, which I haven't done in a long time, the Battle of Britain and the eastern front pretty much decimated the number of experienced pilots. Yeah, the Americans still flew against a few of the elite in Africa, but by the end of Africa and shortly into the Italian war, Germany had pretty much lost all hope of winning.

Heh heh.  Look up when Hartman started flying.

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Offline SELECTOR

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Erich Rudorffer HE Is the BEST WWII Pilot
« Reply #20 on: July 16, 2004, 05:36:07 PM »
no hes not...
not even top 10

Offline Ack-Ack

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Erich Rudorffer HE Is the BEST WWII Pilot
« Reply #21 on: July 16, 2004, 05:40:26 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by B17Skull12
Bug.  2 different "armies".  Luftwaffe ran the prison camps only.  Gestapo did the killing.




The Gestapo didn't use Ju-87s to bomb Polish refugees during the invasion of Poland in '39, nor did the Gestapo bomb Warsaw, Amsterdam, Coventry, etc...

However you want to white wash it by saying they were only following orders or that they didn't belong to the Nazi party, the Luftwaffe still fought for the ideals of Hitler and the Nazi party.  You kid yourself if you think otherwise.



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Offline JB42

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Erich Rudorffer HE Is the BEST WWII Pilot
« Reply #22 on: July 16, 2004, 06:23:18 PM »
Right AKAK, just like all our troops in Iraq are firm Bush supporters and wholey back his ideals (except the one guy who fled to Lebenon). DOH!!!!
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Offline Kweassa

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Erich Rudorffer HE Is the BEST WWII Pilot
« Reply #23 on: July 16, 2004, 06:34:06 PM »
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However you want to white wash it by saying they were only following orders or that they didn't belong to the Nazi party, the Luftwaffe still fought for the ideals of Hitler and the Nazi party. You kid yourself if you think otherwise.


 So if Kerry gets elected in US, all the US military personnel is fighting for his cause, and his personal political vision.. and therefore are all Democrats?

 Or if Bush gets elected they all suddenly turn into Republicans?

Offline Fariz

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Erich Rudorffer HE Is the BEST WWII Pilot
« Reply #24 on: July 16, 2004, 06:42:26 PM »
Always thought that for such things O'Club was created.

Offline RTSigma

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Erich Rudorffer HE Is the BEST WWII Pilot
« Reply #25 on: July 16, 2004, 06:51:29 PM »
European cities were made mostly of brick and stone.
Japanese cities did have wooden houses.
USAAF firebombed.
Fire + wood = more fire.
Cities is where people and businesses live and are located.

As for the Luftwaffe being evil and doing this and that. did every pilot strafe civilians? I'm sure Ju-52 pilots didn't.

Read JG26: Top Guns of the Luftwaffe.

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Offline Arlo

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Erich Rudorffer HE Is the BEST WWII Pilot
« Reply #26 on: July 16, 2004, 06:58:43 PM »
Now here's a thread concept that hasn't been done to death by both Luftie-apologist fanatics and rabid Nazi witch hunters alike in the AH community. :lol

Offline Kweassa

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Erich Rudorffer HE Is the BEST WWII Pilot
« Reply #27 on: July 16, 2004, 07:11:31 PM »
Come to think of it... according to that logic... if I vouch for German WW2 soldiers..

... who are supposed to be no different from Nazis, in that they volunteered/were drafted into military service for their country which was going to war...

.... which happened to have a terrible Nazi dictator at its top...

 .. then by defending their position on this matter I'd qualify as either a "Nazi" or a "Nazi enthusiast" group..!

 And I'm not a Aryan too!!

Offline J_A_B

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Erich Rudorffer HE Is the BEST WWII Pilot
« Reply #28 on: July 16, 2004, 07:25:13 PM »
So some of you think the Luftwaffe wasn't effective anymore by late 1943?  Tell the bomber crews that!  Far fom being useless, it was so effective that the daylight bombing campaign actually had to be halted for a time due to the grevious losses the "no longer effective" Luftwaffe was inflicting.


And some of you seem to think the American kids just out of flightschool in 1944 were somehow more experienced?  You don't get combat experience in a flight school.  American pilots were certainly better trained for landing and formation flying, but in actual combat a green pilot is still every bit as green.  There is nothing to replace the "baptism by fire".  

The really pivotal battles happened in spring/early summer 1944.  This is when the long-range escorts suddenly and unexpectedly (to the Germans) appeared.  The result was the inexperienced pilots in the P-38's, P-47's and P-51's slaughtered the inexperienced pilots in 109G-6's and 190A-8's.   The bulk of the Luftwaffe fighter strength was geared towards killing bombers; their equipment didn't have the performance to meet the Allies on a level playing field.   They were avoiding Allied fighters when possible for more than a year when suddenly that wasn't an option anymore--and it hurt them bad.

By the latter half of 1944 the Germans finally responded to the threat with a new generation of fighters---the 109G-10 and K, and the 190D-9.   THIS is when the now experienced Allied pilots began to slaughter the new generation of German fliers.   The Allies never gave them a chance and made destruction of the Luftwaffe a priority.  With Allied fighters able to range all over Germany and strike "targets of opportunity" on their return flights, the Germans had nowhere to hide, nowhere to train, nowhere to operate in safety.   Even then they somehow managed to remain a credible (if diminished) threat until after the Battle of the Bulge.



J_A_B

Offline DrDea

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Erich Rudorffer HE Is the BEST WWII Pilot
« Reply #29 on: July 17, 2004, 04:08:09 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Wotan
There were under 1500 casulites in Guernica, a raid that Franco asked the LW to do.

Compare that with Hamburg or Dresden or even Tokyo...

The allied airforces killed many more civilians then the LW.


  Very true and the night bombing raids by the Brits were anything but accurate.
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