Author Topic: Best Gun Platform? (Read 900 times)

Halo · « **on:** July 15, 2004, 11:35:36 PM »

Theoretically and practically, what is the best gun platform?

All guns nose mounted and no prop synchronization like the P-38?

All guns cowl mounted with prop synch like the La-7?

Gun in prop hub and cowl guns synch like Yak-3?

Gun in prop hub, cowl guns synch and wing guns like P-39?

Unsynch wing guns like P-51?

I would think the P-38 arrangement is best for air to air with no synch or convergence issues. Is that correct?

I would think unsynch wing guns would be best for strafing. Is that correct?

I would think there were no synch wing guns, i.e., mounted so close to fuselage that they fired through prop arc. Is that correct?

I would think that any synch gun has some kind of effect on prop rpms and hence aircraft speed. Is that correct?

Do guns firing through the prop hub affect engine sync and hence speed?

What are the most important pros and cons of each of these gun arrangements and any other major variation not previously mentioned?

What prompts this thread is continued puzzlement over effectiveness of fighters with guns synchronized to fire through prop arc. I would think that the gearing and timing would impair speed and thus make them less effective fighters.

But doesn't seem to be the case.

J_A_B · « **Reply #1 on:** July 15, 2004, 11:37:37 PM »

"I would think there were no synch wing guns, i.e., mounted so close to fuselage that they fired through prop arc. Is that correct? "

FW-190's inboard cannons, for one.

J_A_B

Halo · « **Reply #2 on:** July 15, 2004, 11:40:36 PM »

Wow, 190 inboards firing through prop arc blow my mind. I must be thinking firing a gun through a prop arc is tougher than it is. Please enlighten me.

J_A_B · « **Reply #3 on:** July 15, 2004, 11:54:40 PM »

It so happens there's an interesting thread on synchronized guns subject in another forum on this BBS.

Synchronized Guns

In general I would agree that an arrangement like the P-38 probaly makes for the best overall gun platform. The added stability given by the very high weight and twin counter-rotating engines is an additional bonus.

J_A_B

MOIL · « **Reply #4 on:** July 16, 2004, 01:28:24 AM »

Here's your best gun platform

DipStick · « **Reply #5 on:** July 16, 2004, 02:38:41 AM »

Not sure about real life but ingame I've found the 38 easiest to hit with by far...

Cooley · « **Reply #6 on:** July 16, 2004, 07:39:02 AM »

Ghosth · « **Reply #7 on:** July 16, 2004, 07:53:21 AM »

Yak9T

They could actually do away with the MG.

The 37mm in the nose rules all.

Just a matter of learning WHEN to pull the trigger.

Kweassa · « **Reply #8 on:** July 16, 2004, 08:37:32 AM »

There is this very, exact article on what would be the most ideal A2A gunnery platform written by Mr. Tony Williams.

To sum it up, the Ta152H or the La-9 is the closest thing in real life to what he considers the ideal - 20mms inboard, one very powerful cannon shooting through the hub(although he doesn't look too highly on the mismatch of the MG151/20 and MK108)... or four 20mm(23mm in case of the La-9) cannons bunched up in the cowl.

Here's the link to the article:

Ideal WW2 Fighter Armament

Sikboy · « **Reply #9 on:** July 16, 2004, 08:50:43 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Ghosth
Yak9T

They could actually do away with the MG.

The 37mm in the nose rules all.

Just a matter of learning WHEN to pull the trigger.

Yep... And to think they put those NS-37s in the nose of some Yak-9Us (along with 2 20mm cannons!)

But as much as I'd like to crown my favorite Ride king of the gun platforms, I can't help but think that the P-38 is a better layout. No need to mess with snychros for additional guns. If you put an NS-37 in place of the 20mm, it would be even better than the Tazholiy Yak.

-Sik

DJ111 · « **Reply #10 on:** July 16, 2004, 08:54:55 AM »

Bf110g2 4x20mms and 2x30mms in the nose.

Ghosth · « **Reply #11 on:** July 16, 2004, 12:59:13 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Sikboy
Yep... And to think they put those NS-37s in the nose of some Yak-9Us (along with 2 20mm cannons!)

But as much as I'd like to crown my favorite Ride king of the gun platforms, I can't help but think that the P-38 is a better layout. No need to mess with snychros for additional guns. If you put an NS-37 in place of the 20mm, it would be even better than the Tazholiy Yak.

-Sik

Ewww a YAK with 2 x 20mm PLUS a 37mm?
YUM YuM!

HT how much scotch? Could be a quick & dirty varient.

DJ111, only problem with the 110 is the differing ballistics between the 20mm & the 30mm.

Now if they'd put 6x20mm in those, with lots of ammo they'd of had a winner IMO.

Halo · « **Reply #12 on:** July 16, 2004, 01:40:08 PM »

Very interesting, good threads, thanks.

So ... according to Williams' speculative ideal WWII single-engine fighter armanent, best arrangement would be one 30mm cannon firing through hub plus two 20 mm cannon in wing roots (vee engine) or two 20mm in cowling and two 20mm in wing roots (radial engine), requiring synchronization for all.

And twin-engine fighters provide best choice of all with no synch problems in clear nose.

One other question which am still uncertain about -- does Aces High model synchronization? I assume not, and this could make a big difference since synch apparently reduces rate of fire 10 to 50%.

If synch not modeled, are guns that fire through prop reduced in fire rate to simulate the lesser firepower?

One other nitpicky question: is the fire rate reduced in any way of a cannon firing through the prop hub or is the rate just as free as a clear nose mounting such as on a P-38?

VWE · « **Reply #13 on:** July 16, 2004, 02:13:23 PM »

AC-130

SLO · « **Reply #14 on:** July 16, 2004, 03:21:43 PM »

Typhoon.....MOSSIE

ultimate gun platforms in AH

Author Topic: Best Gun Platform? (Read 900 times)

VWE