Author Topic: Wise words that makes me proud to call myself Swedish  (Read 1502 times)

Offline Hortlund

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Wise words that makes me proud to call myself Swedish
« on: July 20, 2004, 12:47:10 PM »
I know this post will be a challenge for some of the attention-span impared forumdwellers..but it is an excellent observation.


Anti-Semitism, anti-Zionism and anti-Americanism are becoming linked and ever more rabid in today's Europe. They arise from a kind of blindness, combined with a strange mixture of alienation, guilt and fear toward both Israel and America.

Millions of Europeans resist seeing Israel as a country fighting for its survival. Israel cannot afford to lose one major war, as it would mean the end of the Jewish state. But huge numbers of Europeans believe that something is fundamentally wrong with the Israelis: they never compromise; they prefer using military means to solve political problems.

Something similar is behind the European attitude toward the US. Look at Europe, many Europeans say, we have eradicated wars, dangerous nationalism and dictatorships. We created a peaceful European Union. We do not wage war; we negotiate. We do not exhaust our resources on weapons. The rest of the planet should learn from us how to live together without terrorizing each other.

As a Swede, I have heard such pacific boasting all my life: that neutral Sweden is a moral superpower. Now this bragging has become the EU's ideology. We are the moral continent. Call this the "Swedenization" of Europe.

`Instead of supporting those who fight international terrorism, many Europeans try to blame the spread of terrorism on Israel and the US. This is a new European illusion.'
 

 
Yes, today's EU is a miracle for a continent where two modern totalitarian movements -- communism and Nazism -- unleashed rivers of blood. But what Europe forgets is how those ideologies were overcome. Without the US Army, Western Europe would not have been liberated in 1945. Without the Marshall Plan and NATO, it would not have taken off economically. Without the policy of containment under America's security umbrella, the Red Army would have strangled the dream of freedom in Eastern Europe, or brought European unity, but under a flag with red stars.

Western Europeans also forget that some areas of the world have never known freedom. In many places, torture chambers are the rules of the game, not the grotesque and shameful mistakes of ill-supervised troops. Any attempt in such places to go behave the European way and negotiate -- without the military power needed to back up diplomacy -- would be pathetic.

Instead of supporting those who fight international terrorism, many Europeans try to blame the spread of terrorism on Israel and the US. This is a new European illusion. Spain's latter day appeasement a la Munich arises from this thinking.

But what if Spain and Europe as a whole had reacted in the opposite way to the Madrid train bombing of April, saying: "We promise that because of that slaughter we will double our support for stabilization in Iraq by sending twice as many troops, experts, engineers, teachers, policemen, doctors and billions of euros in support of allied forces and their Iraqi co-workers." The triumph of terrorists would have been transformed into a triumph of the war on terror.

The images many Europeans hold of America and Israel create the political climate for some very ugly bias. You have the Great Satan and the Small Satan. America wants to dominate the world -- exactly the allegation made in traditional anti-Semitic rhetoric about the Jews. Indeed, modern anti-Zionist rhetoric portrays Israel's goal as domination of the Middle East. Such ideas are reflected in opinion polls in which Europeans claim that Israel and the US are the true dangers to world peace.

Ian Buruma, the British writer, claims that this European rage against America and Israel has to do with guilt and fear. The two world wars led to such catastrophic carnage that "never again" was interpreted as "welfare at home, non-intervention abroad." The problem with this concept is that it could only survive under the protection of American might.

Extreme anti-Americanism and anti-Zionism are actually merging. The so-called peace poster "Hitler Had Two Sons: Bush and Sharon," displayed in European anti-war rallies, combines trivialization of Nazism with demonization of both the victims of Nazism and those who defeated Nazism.

Much of this grows from a subconscious European guilt related to the Holocaust. Now the Holocaust's victims -- and their children and grandchildren -- are supposedly doing to others what was done to them. By equating the murderer and the victim, we wash our hands.

This pattern of anti-Zionism and anti-Americanism returns again and again. "The ugly Israeli" and "the ugly American" seem to be of the same family. "The ugly Jew" becomes the instrumental part of this defamation when so-called neoconservatives are blamed both for American militarism and Israeli brutalities and then selectively named: Wolfowitz, Perle, Abrams, Kristol, etc. This is a new version of the old myth that Jews rule the US.

Earlier this year, the editor of Die Zeit, Josef Joffe, put his finger on the issue: like Jews, Americans are said to be selfish and arrogant. Like Jews, they are in thrall to a fundamentalist religion that renders them self-righteous and dangerous. Like Jews, Americans are money-grubbing capitalists, for whom the highest value is the cash nexus. "America and Israel are the outsiders -- just as Jews have been all the way into the 21st century," Joffe says.

The links between anti-Semitism, anti-Zionism and anti-Americanism are all too real. Unless Europe's leaders roundly condemn this unholy triple alliance, it will poison Middle East politics and trans-Atlantic relations alike.


Per Ahlmark is a former deputy prime minister of Sweden.

http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/edit/archives/2004/06/17/2003175429

Offline _Schadenfreude_

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« Reply #1 on: July 20, 2004, 12:48:54 PM »
Any particular reason why he's an EX Minister?

Offline Ripsnort

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« Reply #2 on: July 20, 2004, 12:51:29 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by _Schadenfreude_
Any particular reason why he's an EX Minister?


For speaking the truth? Some people with their heads in the sand hate the truth.

Offline AKIron

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« Reply #3 on: July 20, 2004, 12:58:28 PM »
Interesting post Hortlund, thanks.

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Offline GtoRA2

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« Reply #4 on: July 20, 2004, 01:32:24 PM »
Interesting read Hort!

Thanks.

Offline Seeker

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« Reply #5 on: July 20, 2004, 01:47:50 PM »
Britain has no guilt over the Holocaust; you must be talking about your Europeans; not mine.

And in the self serving propaganda above it's forgotten that America not only stood idly by; but extented trade and comfort to the Fascists.

American might certainly made the end of WWII what it was; and undoubtedly laid the seeds of the peace which Europe is enjoying today. With out American help and involvement the map of Europe would look very different and without American help the lives of  many; if not most Europeans would be fundamentaly different.

But let's not over do it; eh, Chaps?

The Americans sent less pilots to the Battle of Britain than even Poland.

 America was dragged screaming and kicking into WWII (which is no bad thing; seen in isolation); is it neccesary to attempt to milk the truth for more than it's worth? Isn't the truth of the American contribution to the Allied effort; late as it was; more than massive enough to stand on it's own with out dubious embellishments?

America entered WWII (quite rightly) for it's own reasons; and did what it did (quite rightly) for it's own reasons; I see no reason for the current generation of Frenchmen growing up almost a centuary after to express any more explicit gratitude to America for their Liberation than I would expect a young Texan to thank the French for his Nation.

These things wear thin over time. That's just the way it is.


Like wise; while it's most certainly true that Europe survived Soviet incroachment in the cold war era thanks in very great part to the umbrella of American protection; part of the deal was an end to internecine aggresion within Europe. Borders were secured and guarenteed at the price of dropping old squabbles.

Now; Isreal has had  more explicit demonstrations and guarentees of her continued existance by America
and the rest of the civilised world combined  than any other Nation ever; yet still it plays Jewish persecution card at every turn.

America; in a politicaly correct terror of being seen as anti-semite, has long been seen as turning a blind eye to Isreali behaviour it would never have tolerated between Britain and France and has fundementaly failed to flex it's muscles in any way to convince Isreal that it is an National entity which is defined by guarenteed borders; not ethnicity.

A Zulu in 1980's Johanesburg had more hope for change in the future than a non-jewish Isreali in the 21'st centuary.

The attempt to link anti-Semitism; anti-Zionism and anti-Americanism is quite real. We should guard against it.

Luckily we're learning fast that's there's more semites than just the Jews; Zionism is Yiddish for Lebensraum and no matter how hard we tried we couldn't be any more anti-american than the average yank if we tried.

This thin attempt at repackaging "if you're not with us you're against us" rhetoric and condensing European sentiment into a simple "if you're not with us then you're a potential Fascist camp guard socialist anti-semite" , is it something you found on the Internet?

Offline JB73

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« Reply #6 on: July 20, 2004, 02:21:39 PM »
great post hortulnd.

i have many thoughts like that, but cannot express them in text well, usually end up typing in circles getting frustrated i can not express my thoughts.

will spend more time tonight @ home looking into the source you posted.

I don't know what to put here yet.

Offline Flyboy

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« Reply #7 on: July 20, 2004, 02:49:22 PM »
good reading, thanks hurtland.

that josef joffe ,ight be a relative of mine btw :)

Offline Maniac

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« Reply #8 on: July 20, 2004, 03:21:22 PM »
Great post Seeker.

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Offline Staga

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« Reply #9 on: July 20, 2004, 04:38:52 PM »
Good post Seeker.

I looked some writings of this Per Ahlmark and I gotta say he's not the most neutral person... I'd say he has quite narrow vision.

Offline Rino

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« Reply #10 on: July 20, 2004, 04:41:27 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Seeker
Britain has no guilt over the Holocaust; you must be talking about your Europeans; not mine.

And in the self serving propaganda above it's forgotten that America not only stood idly by; but extented trade and comfort to the Fascists.

American might certainly made the end of WWII what it was; and undoubtedly laid the seeds of the peace which Europe is enjoying today. With out American help and involvement the map of Europe would look very different and without American help the lives of  many; if not most Europeans would be fundamentaly different.

But let's not over do it; eh, Chaps?

The Americans sent less pilots to the Battle of Britain than even Poland.

 America was dragged screaming and kicking into WWII (which is no bad thing; seen in isolation); is it neccesary to attempt to milk the truth for more than it's worth? Isn't the truth of the American contribution to the Allied effort; late as it was; more than massive enough to stand on it's own with out dubious embellishments?

America entered WWII (quite rightly) for it's own reasons; and did what it did (quite rightly) for it's own reasons; I see no reason for the current generation of Frenchmen growing up almost a centuary after to express any more explicit gratitude to America for their Liberation than I would expect a young Texan to thank the French for his Nation.

These things wear thin over time. That's just the way it is.


Like wise; while it's most certainly true that Europe survived Soviet incroachment in the cold war era thanks in very great part to the umbrella of American protection; part of the deal was an end to internecine aggresion within Europe. Borders were secured and guarenteed at the price of dropping old squabbles.

Now; Isreal has had  more explicit demonstrations and guarentees of her continued existance by America
and the rest of the civilised world combined  than any other Nation ever; yet still it plays Jewish persecution card at every turn.

America; in a politicaly correct terror of being seen as anti-semite, has long been seen as turning a blind eye to Isreali behaviour it would never have tolerated between Britain and France and has fundementaly failed to flex it's muscles in any way to convince Isreal that it is an National entity which is defined by guarenteed borders; not ethnicity.

A Zulu in 1980's Johanesburg had more hope for change in the future than a non-jewish Isreali in the 21'st centuary.

The attempt to link anti-Semitism; anti-Zionism and anti-Americanism is quite real. We should guard against it.

Luckily we're learning fast that's there's more semites than just the Jews; Zionism is Yiddish for Lebensraum and no matter how hard we tried we couldn't be any more anti-american than the average yank if we tried.

This thin attempt at repackaging "if you're not with us you're against us" rhetoric and condensing European sentiment into a simple "if you're not with us then you're a potential Fascist camp guard socialist anti-semite" , is it something you found on the Internet?


     Man what color is the sky in your world Seeker?
I don't recall the US sending lend-lease to Germany, or escorting
german shipping halfway across the Atlantic before entering the
war.

     As far as the rest of it, the rise of anti-Americanism seems to
have dramatically risen after the fall of the USSR...amazing
coincidence there, huh?
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Offline Rino

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« Reply #11 on: July 20, 2004, 04:44:47 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Maniac
Great post Seeker.



     Yeah, great post:rolleyes:
     The Americans sent
less pilots to defend the UK than Poland were at war with them> did.

     Also apparently the Lend-Lease program was aiding Germany
as much as the UK as well.  What a flaming crock.

     As far as I can see, anti-Americanism increased dramatically
after the fall of the USSR, what an odd coincidence.
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Offline bozon

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« Reply #12 on: July 20, 2004, 05:03:20 PM »
WWII as an argument for present day issues is indeed well over used. It's dead and gone and we are now entering the 3rd generation after the war. time to move on, lesson learned.

what people forget is that that the peace-time europe is experiencing now is the result of about 1500 years of wars (if we only start counting it after the fall of the roman empire) including 2 of the most terrible wars in history. In Israel we are shedding blood for only 100 years or so. Give us 1000 years more and them check on us again... :p

The fact is that too many people do not make a difference between an Israeli  and a Jew. That includes Swedes by the way - I have Jewish friends in sweden (born there) who can testify to that and had an unpleasant experiance there myself (though the guy recognized me as an Israeli and was definitly not a native swede. I have a very good guess about his faith too, but one case is not statistics).

If you measure a country's importance by media coverage, then Israel IS a super-power right there next to the US. I still can't belive that 7-8 million people fighting over a few kilometers of cursed, half-desert land attracts more foreign reporters than the entire african continent with it hundred and thousands dead per day - but nobody gives a $h!t about africans, we are much more interesting.

my suggestion is that Israel and the palestinians start charging money for every reporter who publishes a story about israel and split the money 50-50. This will really boost both our economies.

On a second thought, this money will most likely be used to get better weapons to kill each other, so forget I mentioned it.

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Offline Nilsen

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« Reply #13 on: July 20, 2004, 05:20:27 PM »
Me and most norwegians disagree on distinct political issues when it comes America and indeed the conflict in Israel. Calling it anti-amercanism and anti-semitism is taking it out of all proportions and is just sad. If i say i dislike Bush and his ways then some always has to make that into anti-amercanism and call me a terrorist lover and whatnot. Why cant peole just see it for what it is and not make it into anything more?

Offline Pongo

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« Reply #14 on: July 20, 2004, 05:32:41 PM »
Hortland. Think the author hates woman too?