Author Topic: Bf110G-2 vs. Mosquito FB.Mk VI  (Read 2187 times)

Offline Karnak

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Bf110G-2 vs. Mosquito FB.Mk VI
« Reply #15 on: July 22, 2004, 07:30:30 PM »
Scherf,

The fuel consumption is based on the Merlin 21.  Pyro said it was out of synch.  He also said he'd fix it when they redo the Mossie.
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Offline Scherf

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Heya Karnak
« Reply #16 on: July 22, 2004, 07:36:39 PM »
Works for me.

Anyway, the whole boost number thing is a bit anal anyway, aircraft performs the way the tests say it should, so what the hey.

Shoot, if Pyro's got any mossie stuff on his to-do list, perhaps he could remove the flame dampers after all...(can provide references / charts re: the slower exhausts if such are needed...)

Cheers,

Scherf
... missions were to be met by the commitment of alerted swarms of fighters, composed of Me 109's and Fw 190's, that were strategically based to protect industrial installations. The inferior capabilities of these fighters against the Mosquitoes made this a hopeless and uneconomical effort. 1.JD KTB

Offline J_A_B

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Bf110G-2 vs. Mosquito FB.Mk VI
« Reply #17 on: July 22, 2004, 07:59:37 PM »
Karnak--

want to do more testing in the DA sometime?    I sort of have fun doing that type of stuff.



"These guns are mostly useless and attemting to use them to defend the aircraft from rear attacts is generally futile. " (regarding the 110 tail guns)


Those guns become quite useful when you have a dedicated gunner on board.   I'd agree they're useless if all you have is a pilot.




J_A_B

Offline LLv34_Snefens

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Bf110G-2 vs. Mosquito FB.Mk VI
« Reply #18 on: July 22, 2004, 08:21:16 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by GScholz

(Btw. no self-respecting 110 bus driver takes the extra guns)


I sometimes do. Granted, I use the 110 most as a Jabo and so I'm taking the 2x500kg loadout instead, but once in a while I bring along the pod.
The deflection shooting possible in the 110 with 2 or 4 of those 20mm is amazing, and they reach so far out that enemy planes often start they evasive too late. The Mossie does an even better job at that, but it lacks the punch of the 30mm in the snapshot or against bombers. I'm not calling 4xHispano weak and most of the time they do just fine, but there is just that little edge to the 110.
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Offline Urchin

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Bf110G-2 vs. Mosquito FB.Mk VI
« Reply #19 on: July 22, 2004, 11:47:06 PM »
110 lights on fire at the drop of a hat in my experience... I'd say at least 75% of the kills I've had of 110s or deaths I've had in 110s were by fire.  

Of course the Mosquito used to do that to, don't know if it still does.  

I'd take 4 Hispanos over 4 MG-151s and 2 Mk108s to be honest.. both gun packages will kill with a burst, and the Hispanos are longer ranged and easier to hit with.  

The Mk-108 doesn't usually kill with one hit in AH2 now, although I imagine firing 2 would still give you the insta-kill effect.  On the other hand, I've killed at least 2 planes so far with single Hispano hits to the tail, the the Hispano can still kill in one hit if you hit the tail anyway.  I hit a P-51 in the wing with 1 Hispano round and the whole thing came off, that has never happened before so I assume he was already damaged.

The 110 actually used to be a pretty decent "dogfighter".. in AH1 I would have rated the 110G over the P-47's and the 190A's in that category.. I haven't flown it to much in AH2 so I couldn't tell you.  In AH1 it turned considerably better than the 190's did, although it didn't accelerate as fast.

Offline Scherf

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Hmm
« Reply #20 on: July 23, 2004, 12:37:30 AM »
Didn't have the impression the old mossie was forever bursting into flames, but then again I didn't have much to compare it to.

Last night was bad for fire though - caught fire a lot, much more often than I'm used to. Not sure if that was just the luck of the draw or some kind of change - suspect the former.

Almost whined online until I realised most of the shots which set my Mossie on fire were my own damn fault - failed to prepare correctly in some way or another, gave away a chance to the other guy, etc.

Cheers,

Scherf
... missions were to be met by the commitment of alerted swarms of fighters, composed of Me 109's and Fw 190's, that were strategically based to protect industrial installations. The inferior capabilities of these fighters against the Mosquitoes made this a hopeless and uneconomical effort. 1.JD KTB

Offline thrila

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Bf110G-2 vs. Mosquito FB.Mk VI
« Reply #21 on: July 23, 2004, 06:00:17 AM »
I would give the firepower to the mossie.  I can make 600 yd deflections shots in the mossie, i don't think i could do the same with the 110.  I fire off the .303s on takeoff- they're useless.  Why keep them when you have 700 rounds off hispano. :)

I wonder if any pilots would have removed the .303s if given a choice.  How much mph the mossie would have gained if they removed the .303s? the protuding guns barrels must have caused a bit of drag.

I've not had many fights against 110's but from my experience the mossie out-turns the 110 at high speed but the reverse is true at low speed.  The 110 handles much better at low speed too, the mossie is just begging the pilot to go into a horrible stall.

The mossie is sexier though.:)

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Offline Replicant

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Bf110G-2 vs. Mosquito FB.Mk VI
« Reply #22 on: July 23, 2004, 06:49:36 AM »
The Bf110 is simply a better town killer than the Mosquito and seeing towns are bigger in AH2 I imagine that's why they're being used more than the Mossie.
NEXX

Offline GODO

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Bf110G-2 vs. Mosquito FB.Mk VI
« Reply #23 on: July 23, 2004, 10:26:35 AM »
That is the point, G2 is simply far better attack plane than mosquito. In fact, G2 is the best jabo of entire AH planeset.

Offline Karnak

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Bf110G-2 vs. Mosquito FB.Mk VI
« Reply #24 on: July 23, 2004, 10:39:34 AM »
J_A_B,

We could do that sometime.  Thanks.

Replicant, MANDOBLE,

I specifically wasn't talking about ground attack. It is clear that the Bf110G-2 is better at that, if only because of the gamey way that cannons blow up buildings.

MANDOBLE,

The Bf110G-2 is not the best jabo aircraft.  When all things ar considered, the P-38L is superior.  It does a bit less damage, but gets there faster and is far, far more survivable than the Bf110G-2.  The Bf110G-2 is only the  best if it has complete air superiority to work in and that is rare.


I have only lost one Mosquito to the Bf110G-2, and that was because I overspeeded and tore my control surfaces off.  It never touched me.  I have never lost a Mosquito to a 110G-2, even if the 110G-2 had the altitude on me.

So far as I can tell, in the group of four easily killed aircraft, both of the Bf110s are at the bottom while the P-38L is clearly the most survivable of the lot.
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Offline JB73

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Bf110G-2 vs. Mosquito FB.Mk VI
« Reply #25 on: July 23, 2004, 11:04:19 AM »
For what it’s worth, here’s my thoughts on the 110 VS the Mosquito as it pertains to AH. None of this is related to real life data, just impressions of why people fly it more.

First off the cockpit views: The 110 has a great advantage in AH, especially for someone who knows how to properly set their views. I don’t believe there is a blind spot at all with the views I have set up. In my opinion your views are your life in AH.

Second, WEP: the 110 has a significant advantage here also. The WEP on the 110 lasts almost as long as a 109. I can load 75% fuel, 2 500kg bombs, and 4 50kg bombs; then climb on WEP to 17-20k from sea level before the WEP starts to wear out. If you choose to save the WEP for later, it is extremely helpful when powering over the top in a dogfight. When attacking in a dive, you can pull out somewhere in the vicinity of 400mph, level off and hit WEP, and extend away from even a pony for a while (unless he dove on you from above during the attack). You can also hit WEP and be back up to 10k + in a very short time.

You can also use the WEP to escape from a dogfight. I have found the acceleration to be quite good in the 110, enough so that if you set up a good escape and get 1.5k separation, you can even get away from a spitfire (at least until you are in a position to reverse and fight 1-1).

Third, load out: the 110 has to have one of the top loadouts in AH. 2 500kg (equaling over 2200lbs), 4 50kg (equaling over 440lbs), and the 20 + 30mm cannon package. In AH 1 I could dispatch an entire town alone in approximately 2-3 minutes, again alone. I would also still have enough ammo for 3-4 kills in dogfights, maybe 5-6 kills vulching if I was not fighting for the vulches (wasting ammo on a plane someone else is shooting at).

In strict dog fighting mode, the 110 ammo load has got to be the biggest, and most lethal in the game. Flown well, not wasting ammo, I can easily see someone getting over 20 kills without coming close to running out of ammo. You’d certainly run out of gas before ammo just dog fighting.

Also in dog fighting, even the most brazen n1k2 or La7 pilot will think twice or thrice before attempting an HO. They most likely have been hit by the 110 HO before, and know it will beat them 9 out of 10 times easily. Personally, I will take a 110 into a fight where I have been HO’d a few times, just to get the enemy to stop doing it LOL.

Fourth, maneuverability: yes both the planes tend to wing over and flop about, but I think the 110 is easier to get a handle on. Part of this I think can be attributed to the views. The more of the sky and horizon you can see, the more aware you are of what the plane is doing. Another thought is the turning radius. I think the 110 holds an advantage there also. Not just flat turning, but high and low yo-yo’s too. I find it easy to sucker a plane into a high yo-yo semi-vertical fight, and get the snapshot on them first. A couple of 20mm or 30mm cannons to their canopy, and boom they’re dead.

I think the 110 can definitely hold it’s own in a 1-1 fight better than the mosquito, based on my observations.

Oh well these are just the ramblings of a fool who likes LW planes LOL. Hope they help understand a 110 pilots thinking Karnak.

<> sir, and good fight last night in the typhoon, I was in an A5.
I don't know what to put here yet.

Offline Karnak

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Bf110G-2 vs. Mosquito FB.Mk VI
« Reply #26 on: July 23, 2004, 11:19:03 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by JB73
<> sir, and good fight last night in the typhoon, I was in an A5.


I was goon hunting.  That was my first flight in the Tiffie in a long, long time.

I'd gotten sick of the 4+ to 1 fights I was getting.  Got gangbanged in a Mossie (took out one N1K2 before the other five aircraft got me) and had a 4 on 1 that ended with a frontal shot my an N1K2 that took off my Spitfire Mk I's wing with one hit.

So I decided to try to frusterate you guys by killing you goons.  Couldn't make myself take an La-7 though.

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Offline GODO

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Bf110G-2 vs. Mosquito FB.Mk VI
« Reply #27 on: July 23, 2004, 11:19:33 AM »
Karnak, believe it or not, 110G2 is a formidable air opponent. Good point is that most people think it is an easy to kill target, that is, seconds before going down in pieces in their uberrides. G2 is Mr single snapshot and you are dead. And G2 can do more than twice ground damage than P38L (2.5 hangars vs 1). About range, a 100% fuel + DTs G2 can cross side to side any small map on military power. BTW, It is normal that G2 usage exceeds clearly that of the Mosquito.

Offline JB73

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Bf110G-2 vs. Mosquito FB.Mk VI
« Reply #28 on: July 23, 2004, 11:29:12 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Karnak
I was goon hunting.  That was my first flight in the Tiffie in a long, long time.
yeah, thats what i expected, i saw a typh low and knew it was a goon hunter, did you see me comming to intercept early on?

after i got you i was like WHA?!?!?! Karnak in a typh?!?1 lol

did not expect that al all.
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Offline Karnak

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Bf110G-2 vs. Mosquito FB.Mk VI
« Reply #29 on: July 23, 2004, 12:09:14 PM »
So it seems the general consensus is that the Bf110G-2 is superior to the Mosquito.

Now, why did the Mosquito have anything like a good reputation in reality?  If the performance in AH is at all accurate I would think that canceling the Mosquito would have been very high on the list of things to do.  Yet it continued production after the war was over.  Why?  It is clearly inferior not only to the P-38, but also to the earlier Bf110 despite having significantly more powerful engines.

This seems like a recipe for a failure of an aircraft, yet history records it as one of the most successful and usefull aircraft of WWII.

Why would anybody have ever picked it over the P-38 for any role as the US did when we tried to procure enough Mosquito F-8 photo recon aircraft to replace the F-5 (P-38) photo recon aircraft.

MANDOBLE,

I tested it some time ago, using the three and IIRC the Bf110G-2 got three hangars, the P-38L got two and the Mosquito got one and damaged another.

In my experience the Bf110G-2 is an easy kill, and I'm not flying La-7s or anything. I think you are overstating the Bf110G-2's air-to-air capabilities.

JB73,

Yeah, I saw you before you had an icon.  I have been having a lot of trouble judging E states of late and didn't think you'd be able to follow my zoom up.  Once you did I was left trying to rudder slide and barrel roll to avoid your fire.

I have also been seeing way, way too many P-51s, Typhoons, Fw190D-9s and especially La-7s.  I'm not very fond of this 1945 ultra fast MA.

I switched to flying the Ki61 at another base after losing the Tiffie and even though there was heavy action in the sector I ran low on fuel before I could expend the Ki61's paltry ammo load.  I only got 1 kill before landing.  Everybody was simply going too fast.
Petals floating by,
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