Author Topic: WTG Phillipines!!!!  (Read 792 times)

Offline demaw1

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WTG Phillipines!!!!
« Reply #15 on: July 26, 2004, 07:11:32 PM »
MUCKMAW    re: cut and run

   Yes I know and it is sad,but you cant leave spain out that was worse than philippines,today the news said it has become their weapon of choice. whatever works will be used.

 SABUROS  re : arm chair generals

  I hope and pray I could be as brave as needed for my family and fellow Americans, but I dont know. I believe the snotty way you said [I dont think so] is very dishonorable to the many who have given their life such as squadron 8[ had no chance,] the men at the alamo could have cut and run, those hitting the beach at normandy, chosin res. the british stoping the french,they knew they had no chance,[ charge of the lite brigade] spartins against the arabs,so very many more, of course youll find something snotty to say about this. I guess there is a truth that will never change.....The few always have to fight for the many.
 
 SIKBOY    I understand , I dont have the stomach for it either unless forced to. But in every decade there are those that will rise to the challenge, just hate it when these people are so....dont know the right word.

Offline demaw1

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WTG Phillipines!!!!
« Reply #16 on: July 26, 2004, 07:14:11 PM »
MUCKMAW    re: cut and run

   Yes I know and it is sad,but you cant leave spain out that was worse than philippines,today the news said it has become their weapon of choice. whatever works will be used.

 SABUROS  re : arm chair generals

  I hope and pray I could be as brave as needed for my family and fellow Americans, but I dont know. I believe the snotty way you said [I dont think so] is very dishonorable to the many who have given their life such as squadron 8[ had no chance,] the men at the alamo could have cut and run, those hitting the beach at normandy, chosin res. the british stoping the french,they knew they had no chance,[ charge of the lite brigade] spartins against the arabs,so very many more, of course youll find something snotty to say about this. I guess there is a truth that will never change.....The few always have to fight for the many.
 
 SIKBOY    I understand , I dont have the stomach for it either unless forced to. But in every decade there are those that will rise to the challenge, just hate it when  people are so ungratefull to those that do rise to the challenge.

Offline Eagler

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WTG Phillipines!!!!
« Reply #17 on: July 26, 2004, 07:19:38 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Rolex
If there is one universal truth, it may be that politicians will do whatever is politically expedient to attain the lofty goal of getting themselves elected or re-elected.


most but not all

some stand by their truths & convictions and are not poll swayed

"Masters of the Air" Scenario - JG27


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Offline -dead-

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WTG Phillipines!!!!
« Reply #18 on: July 27, 2004, 02:02:12 AM »
One of the pitfalls of cajoling, blackmailing and buying support off developing countries to make a "coalition" is that by that very process you end up with small forces from governments that give in easily to bullying, blackmail and money.

So really, what did the US expect? If the Philippines didn't fold at the slighest threat of losing money, they probably would have told the US where to stick their coalition "offer" in the first place. it comes as little surprise then, that now — when the Pilippines figures it has far more to lose from supporting the US in this than by folding — that they go ahead and fold.

At home Arroyo would lose huge amounts of popularity: A LOT of Filipinos work overseas — the idea that the Government would do nothing to help overseas workers who got kidnapped might very well end up in a coup/revolution.

And with over 3,000 Filipino workers in Iraq, 900,000 in Saudi, 85,000 in the UAE, 60,000 in Kuwait - in fact a total of 1.5 million Filipinos working in the Middle East, avoiding conflict with Islamic extremist groups is extremely important economically to the Philippines. It's the source of a lot of Foreign exchange, and in it's favour, it's much less fickle and has fewer strings attached than any aid the US government can promise.

Moving 50 engineers home a month earlier also saves a bit of cash.

Of course it's a gamble, and may well prove to be a short-term remedy, but if it all goes to hell in a handbasket, they can always renegotiate.
β€œThe FBI has no hard evidence connecting Usama Bin Laden to 9/11.” --  Rex Tomb, Chief of Investigative Publicity for the FBI, June 5, 2006.

Offline NUKE

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WTG Phillipines!!!!
« Reply #19 on: July 27, 2004, 02:16:15 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by -dead-


— the idea that the Government would do nothing to help overseas workers who got kidnapped might very well end up in a coup/revolution.



They actually endangered the workers and more so, their country by cowing to terrorists. Now everyone knows that they will submit to terrorists and they are fair game for exploitation by anyone who has a bone to pick.

Offline SaburoS

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WTG Phillipines!!!!
« Reply #20 on: July 27, 2004, 02:22:49 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Dead Man Flying
That does not speak to the political repercussions of giving in to terrorist demands.  If you, as a political decisionmaker, understood that giving in on this one person meant that many others would meet this fate than would have otherwise... what decision would you make in good conscience?

-- Todd/Leviathn


Because it's our invasion, we need to stay the course. The Bush administration made the right decision, as painful as it was, to not give in to the murder's demands in those circumstances.
The Italians didn't either. But guess what? They keep kidnapping victims of opportunity.
The Philipines govt. had a very tough decision to make indeed.
They were going to withdraw in a month. How would the people back home react to seeing their fellow countryman being brutally murdered? It would be different if not giving in to terrorist's demands would lead to no more further kidnappings and murders.
Fact is they don't. As long as the 'other' side doesn't like what you are doing, they will do whatever in their power they can get away with. The Philipines are a minor 'player' in this and I can understand why they did what they did.
The US, being the major player in this, I understand exactly why we couldn't 'tuck tail and run.' We need to stay the course.
Men fear thought as they fear nothing else on earth -- more than ruin -- more even than death.... Thought is subversive and revolutionary, destructive and terrible, thought is merciless to privilege, established institutions, and comfortable habit. ... Bertrand Russell

Offline SaburoS

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WTG Phillipines!!!!
« Reply #21 on: July 27, 2004, 02:34:09 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by demaw1
SABUROS  re : arm chair generals

  I hope and pray I could be as brave as needed for my family and fellow Americans, but I dont know. I believe the snotty way you said [I dont think so] is very dishonorable to the many who have given their life such as squadron 8[ had no chance,] the men at the alamo could have cut and run, those hitting the beach at normandy, chosin res. the british stoping the french,they knew they had no chance,[ charge of the lite brigade] spartins against the arabs,so very many more, of course youll find something snotty to say about this. I guess there is a truth that will never change.....The few always have to fight for the many.


My point in all of this is that we sit back in judgement and make it seem so easy on decisions of life and death. Where in the world are you coming off on your samples? Apples and oranges.
If you were in that situation of going to be brutally murdered, you'd not wish your country would try to secure your release?
Or you'd tell them to: "**** off and slit my neck 'cause MY country doesn't negotiate with terrorists!"
I'm not talking about a situation where we were invaded and being occupied. Not about the Alamo, Normany Beach, WWII, etc.
I'm talking about this situation we're in right now, as invaders and occupiers (like it or not, that's what I'm guessing the avg Iraqi looks at us to be). The kidnappings won't stop no matter if anyone gives in or not.
Men fear thought as they fear nothing else on earth -- more than ruin -- more even than death.... Thought is subversive and revolutionary, destructive and terrible, thought is merciless to privilege, established institutions, and comfortable habit. ... Bertrand Russell

Offline GreenCloud

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« Reply #22 on: July 27, 2004, 02:57:32 AM »
yes ..spain and philipines gov can suk it rigth now...


pisses me off..we are down there helping the pinois against there own muslim wackjobs in the islands....and they pull this crap..

What the fuq they think was gonan happen?  Disney Land?


there are quite a few argumenst i could crush in here...but screw this..im lettn you michaelmoorestuartsmalley humps keep humpn...


Gixer?...im sure the other countries who have sacrificed there sons and daughters apreciate your.."real allies" crap



its going to take more killings of your friends and family to snap out of your utopia dreams...


You only "deal' with terrosts..when neccesary to smaq them even harder............This is far from Online Candlyland you play:   )

and trell...nice ....No need to stcik your neck out for other countries...

Where are you from?  native american indian?

..A healthy stable world is a great thing...countries in Kaos is bad....think you could list soem reasons why tht is?..lolo

Offline -dead-

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« Reply #23 on: July 27, 2004, 04:44:59 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by NUKE
They actually endangered the workers and more so, their country by cowing to terrorists. Now everyone knows that they will submit to terrorists and they are fair game for exploitation by anyone who has a bone to pick.

Maybe, and then again, maybe not. It's a gamble, but in its favour, by withdrawing their troops, they've withdrawn the single bone of contention - there is now nothing that the extremist groups in Iraq can really gain from the Philippines government.

Holding people to ransom won't work: that's ultimately a family thing, and thus pretty stupid: if their family had pots of cash, they wouldn't be working in Iraq. Kidnapping poor people for money is dumb.

Tell company X to withdraw from Iraq? They're not Filipino companies, so the Philippines government is of no use there.

They might ask the Philippines to withdraw all its citizens, but I'm not sure if the government could hope to deliver that goal, and even if they can from the government's point of view in the end, with only 3,000 Filipinos, Iraq's relatively small potatoes compared to other ME countries: so it might be worth the gamble for the goodwill it generates elsewhere (standing up to the US, receptive to the Iraqi cause, withdrawing troops from occupied territory, shunning zionist-US plot to enslave the good people of ME or whatever the hell the views are over there).

Perhaps some members of the new US-appointed regime are angry at the Philippines - but it was only 50 or so engineers, and it was going 1 month early so in the grand scheme of things it's fairly forgivable. And whether that regime's personnel has any say at all in the future of Iraq remains to be seen. Whether it can gain control of the cities remains moot at the moment. All in all it may actually prove extremely counterproductive to future trade to curry favour with the current regime.
 
It's conceivable that some may try to get Abu Sayyaf people released - but it seems rather unlikely: why should the Iraqis care? And there the Philippines government will probably draw the line. Because they can be tough on terrorists if it's worth their while.

So I tend to think the risk against the Philippines has lessened somewhat. One way it could increase again is if the Philippines now tries to cover themselves by bending over backwards to stress support of the US occupation. Because ultimately in Iraq, one of the biggest factors in determining who is at risk of be kidnapped and killed is whether their government supports the US in Iraq or not.

But to take an entirely practical point of view, no one can actually say with any certainty whether the Filipinos in Iraq now are any more or any less at risk of kidnap and beheading than before. All we can say is that one of them appears to still be alive because of it.

What really seems like the final shrewd calculation on Arroyo's part is the gamble that the US is unlikely to withdraw much if any of its TWOT-related aid dollars to the Philippines as that would make the US seem soft on terrorists, a really bad move for W in an election year. Gotta hand it to Glo, really. She's a lot of things but she ain't dumb.
β€œThe FBI has no hard evidence connecting Usama Bin Laden to 9/11.” --  Rex Tomb, Chief of Investigative Publicity for the FBI, June 5, 2006.

Offline bikekil

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WTG Phillipines!!!!
« Reply #24 on: July 27, 2004, 06:39:54 AM »
WARSAW, July 21 (AFP) - Poland and Bulgaria on Wednesday dug in their heels insisting they would not bow to an ultimatum from a group claiming links with Al-Qaeda to withdraw their troops from Iraq or face a terrorist attack. "When you give into pressure from terrorists it increases the threat for others," said Polish Prime Minister Marek Belka, whose country is a staunch supporter of Washington in Iraq where it heads a 6,500-strong multinational force.


that's it

Offline Bunyip

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« Reply #25 on: July 27, 2004, 07:10:21 AM »
Yep both Howard and Downer are ca pair of scat munchers!

Offline demaw1

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WTG Phillipines!!!!
« Reply #26 on: July 27, 2004, 07:16:05 AM »
Dead   re:  Phillipines better off.

    I believe you are right, it was better for the phillipines and their citizen for them to retreat,I also agree if I was close to the person being threatened I would be screaming to high heaven.That is why juries never have realitives of the victum on them.
   But do you believe all these that have been kidnapped in last 2 days is just a coinendence?Look at how many are facing the axe now.
 
  Saborus, I was wrong your reply was resonable not snotty. Having said that most of us know these things are not easy.Look at how easy it is in the safety of their cocoon for the bush haters and bashers,maybe they should realize how hard it is for him to have all the right answers to this mess.

 I dont see it as all apples and oranges, we didnt have to fight in europe in ww2,I am talking about what it takes to make a decision such as this. I am just a dumb avg American,but if I was a terrorist I would be planning to kidnap 4 phillippenos to make her release all the radical muslim prisioners they have.  Now what.

  We didnt invade anyone,we did what many thought had to be done remember something call the towers. Germany invaded poland,japan invaded china,big diffefence. The kidnappings may or may not stopped we will never know but they have certainally increased wouldnt you say?

Offline Ripsnort

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WTG Phillipines!!!!
« Reply #27 on: July 27, 2004, 09:09:14 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by bikekil
WARSAW, July 21 (AFP) - Poland and Bulgaria on Wednesday dug in their heels insisting they would not bow to an ultimatum from a group claiming links with Al-Qaeda to withdraw their troops from Iraq or face a terrorist attack. "When you give into pressure from terrorists it increases the threat for others," said Polish Prime Minister Marek Belka, whose country is a staunch supporter of Washington in Iraq where it heads a 6,500-strong multinational force.


that's it


WTFG POLAND and BULGARIA! :aok :aok

Offline SirLoin

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« Reply #28 on: July 27, 2004, 09:12:30 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Ripsnort
Gixer, its pretty obvious that whether or not they "plan" to pull their troops has nothing to do with giving in to terrorists.  The Philippines planned to do so, however, they gave in to the terrorists by pulling them sooner, to save one life.  The terrorists tout it, as a victory for them, and the behavior becomes a cascade of yet more abductions.  its also a very good recruitment tool.

You cannot negociate nor even show a hint of weakness, with terrorists.


I agree..Never concede to terror...No negotions with abductors period.!
**JOKER'S JOKERS**

Offline Trell

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« Reply #29 on: July 27, 2004, 09:28:57 AM »
The phillipines  is not there to take care of the world, They are there to take care of there people and intrests,  
It is in there intests to pull out of iraq and not piss every one off.

It may hurt us in the long run, or the short run.  But i cant fault them for taking care of there own