Author Topic: WTG Phillipines!!!! (Read 782 times)

muckmaw · « **on:** July 26, 2004, 01:41:31 PM »

When are people going to learn: There is no room for negotiating or appeasing terrorists?

Many of those abducted have been truck drivers bringing needed supplies. Adel Abou Hawili, a manager for Kuwait's Al-Roomi Shipping Agency, said the wave of kidnappings has forced transport costs up "50 to 65 percent" and made it harder to find drivers to work in Iraq.

Amid the latest abductions, many blamed the Philippines' decision a week ago to withdraw troops as militants demanded to secure the release of captured Filipino truck driver Angelo dela Cruz. Since dela Cruz's release last Tuesday, 12 foreigners — including an Egyptian diplomat — have been kidnapped by four different groups. A top Iraqi businessman was also seized.

"We've seen since the Philippines government acceded to the demands of the terrorists a whole spate of new hostage taking," Australian Foreign Minister Alexander Downer said. "And I'm afraid that's what inevitably is going to happen in those circumstances."

Sada also expressed regret at the Philippines decision: "We think that to bow to the terrorists' threats is the wrong policy."

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=540&e=3&u=/ap/20040726/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq_11

ra · « **Reply #1 on:** July 26, 2004, 01:44:18 PM »

But they were gonna leave in a month anyway!

slimm50 · « **Reply #2 on:** July 26, 2004, 01:55:37 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by ra
But they were gonna leave in a month anyway!

Looks like ya can't reason with, or use logic with a terrorist.

SaburoS · « **Reply #3 on:** July 26, 2004, 01:57:36 PM »

Yeah, we armchair generals sure are brave and noble when it's not our neck that's gonna get sawed off.
About this 'not negotiating with hostages' statement, (in the past) the US has done it (Iran/Contra). So has Israel(Palestinian/Israeli prisoner swap). We just like to mask it so it's not obvious.

Here's the question:
Would you be as brave if it was you that was going to brutally murdered?
Frankly, I don't think so.

**edit: Go to Ogrish.com. There's a video of a Russian prisoner getting his neck brutally cut off. Close up with sound.
Tell me you'd be as brave as you are now if it was your neck they were cutting off.

Trell · « **Reply #4 on:** July 26, 2004, 02:11:29 PM »

The phillipines did what they needed to do to protect there people.

They were leaving any ways, it is not there war. I see no reason for them to stick there necks out for any one else.
There is no honor fighting a battle that neither there people nor them selves want.

Dead Man Flying · « **Reply #5 on:** July 26, 2004, 02:31:58 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by SaburoS
Here's the question:
Would you be as brave if it was you that was going to brutally murdered?
Frankly, I don't think so.

That's really an unrelated point since the people threatened with death don't make the decisions and hold absolutely no power. In that situation any rational person would prefer living to dying horribly.

That does not speak to the political repercussions of giving in to terrorist demands. If you, as a political decisionmaker, understood that giving in on this one person meant that many others would meet this fate than would have otherwise... what decision would you make in good conscience?

-- Todd/Leviathn

-tronski- · « **Reply #6 on:** July 26, 2004, 02:52:27 PM »

Downer starts diplomatic row over Iraq

"I think it's important we look after ourselves first and foremost," Mr Downer said.

What bollocks.... Downer, Howard, and the liberal govt. only got into Iraq to buy favour with GWB

Alexander Downer is a sniveling lackey, anyone who would take anything from his opinion is a clown

Tronsky

Sikboy · « **Reply #7 on:** July 26, 2004, 02:59:23 PM »

I think this is one of the reasons I stopped studying IR.

My heart couldn't take the analysis that my head was supplying.

Have you ever seen the movie "Rope"?

In that movie Jimmy Stuart plays a professor who has some interesting and ghastly ideas about class and society, which he casually teaches and tosses about in conversation. It isn't until the horrible human consequences of his thinking play a direct role in his life, and he can see firsthand the results of his teachings, that he is able to take a step back and realize what he had done (now, this is not much of a spoiler, and it's not the main plot of the movie, just something I think about from time to time).

So it is with me and IR policy. I can say that I believe giving in to terrorists demands causes more terrorism, but I can also say that I'm glad I didn't have to make the descision that gets someone's head cut off. Essentially letting a known one die to protect an unown many... I just don't have the stomach for it these days.

-Sik

mosgood · « **Reply #8 on:** July 26, 2004, 03:02:39 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Trell
The phillipines did what they needed to do to protect there people.

They were leaving any ways, it is not there war. I see no reason for them to stick there necks out for any one else.
There is no honor fighting a battle that neither there people nor them selves want.

WOW! Good thing the U.S. won't have that attitude the next time there's a natural disaster somewhere.

Trell... do you feel the same way about the U.S. giving aid to countries in need as well?

Trell · « **Reply #9 on:** July 26, 2004, 04:26:45 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by mosgood
WOW! Good thing the U.S. won't have that attitude the next time there's a natural disaster somewhere.

Trell... do you feel the same way about the U.S. giving aid to countries in need as well?

If going to help another country during a natural disaster knowing that we are sending people to die, than yes. I am against it.

And yes I am against giving money to other countries, Unless it is in our benifet

Our goverment is there to help the people of our country, not screw us, and help other countires.

we are not the father of these other countries. they dont need child support

Gixer · « **Reply #10 on:** July 26, 2004, 04:33:59 PM »

I don't think you can blame any goverment for pulling out their support,troops what ever from Iraq. It's just never been a popular decision or campaign for any governemnt to support or be seen to be supporting in any way.

We have troops there but I think they are due back in October and won't be getting replaced.

Look at the heat blair is taking, he's the only real "ally" in the whole thing and it's going to cost him his job come the next election or possibly even sooner. And when that happens the next PM is sure to set in place the withdrawl of UK forces.

~~...-Gixer~~

Ripsnort · « **Reply #11 on:** July 26, 2004, 04:41:16 PM »

Gixer, its pretty obvious that whether or not they "plan" to pull their troops has nothing to do with giving in to terrorists. The Philippines planned to do so, however, they gave in to the terrorists by pulling them sooner, to save one life. The terrorists tout it, as a victory for them, and the behavior becomes a cascade of yet more abductions. its also a very good recruitment tool.

You cannot negociate nor even show a hint of weakness, with terrorists.

Naso · « **Reply #12 on:** July 26, 2004, 05:14:09 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by mosgood
WOW! Good thing the U.S. won't have that attitude the next time there's a natural disaster somewhere.

Trell... do you feel the same way about the U.S. giving aid to countries in need as well?

I believe that the analogy between a natural disaster and the war in Iraq is a bit streched.

well....

nevermind.

NUTTZ · « **Reply #13 on:** July 26, 2004, 05:46:17 PM »

I wouldn't go as far and call them "troops" from what I've read they were just truck drivers and such and their numbers where under 50. Although I do understand NOW we need 50 US soldiers to now drive trucks and every soldier is needed in more major roles of the "war".

NUTTZ

Quote

Originally posted by Ripsnort
Gixer, its pretty obvious that whether or not they "plan" to pull their troops has nothing to do with giving in to terrorists. The Philippines planned to do so, however, they gave in to the terrorists by pulling them sooner, to save one life. The terrorists tout it, as a victory for them, and the behavior becomes a cascade of yet more abductions. its also a very good recruitment tool.

You cannot negociate nor even show a hint of weakness, with terrorists.

Rolex · « **Reply #14 on:** July 26, 2004, 06:36:05 PM »

The Philippines is not the only gov't to cut and run, or negotiate.

The U.S. negotiated for the release of the hostages in Iran by supplying advanced weapons for their war against Iraq - at the same time Iraq was being furnished with weapons for their war against Iran.

The U.S. vowed to never give in to terrorist bombings after the U.S. embassy in Lebanon was attacked. Six months later, after the truck bombing of the Marine barracks, the U.S. pulled out of Lebanon.

Perhaps the hastiest retreat in history was the U.S. pullout of 25,000 troops from Somalia after 16 U.S. soldiers were killed.

If there is one universal truth, it may be that politicians will do whatever is politically expedient to attain the lofty goal of getting themselves elected or re-elected.