Author Topic: Who do you support in the IDF-Arabs conflict?  (Read 2890 times)

Offline DREDIOCK

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 17775
Who do you support in the IDF-Arabs conflict?
« Reply #45 on: July 28, 2004, 07:51:38 AM »
Great question. But shouldnt he have been in the middle east,asking it to the people who live in the middle east?
And while he was at it he could ask the Israelis why with what is claimed to be one of the best trained and equipped militaries in the world why it would take a hellfire missile fired into a building with women and children living next door to kill one person when a single bullet from a sniper rifle could accomplish the exact same result without the collateral damage?
And the message would be much more powerful.


Quote
Originally posted by Shuckins

Heard an Arab/American expert on the Middle East ask the following question during a speech given to an audience attending a meeting on Middle Eastern politics;   "How much sense does it make for a Muslim who lives in Afghanistan or Pakistan or Indonesia or Libya to say that the single largest concern in their lives is what a small group of people in a tiny country with their backs to the Mediterranean are doing?"
Death is no easy answer
For those who wish to know
Ask those who have been before you
What fate the future holds
It ain't pretty

Offline midnight Target

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 15114
Who do you support in the IDF-Arabs conflict?
« Reply #46 on: July 28, 2004, 09:43:43 AM »
Thank you babek. Very enlightening.

Offline Hortlund

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4690
Who do you support in the IDF-Arabs conflict?
« Reply #47 on: July 28, 2004, 10:17:08 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by DREDIOCK
ask the Israelis why with what is claimed to be one of the best trained and equipped militaries in the world why it would take a hellfire missile fired into a building with women and children living next door to kill one person when a single bullet from a sniper rifle could accomplish the exact same result without the collateral damage?


Because the terrorist leaders move around so much and so often that it would be impossible to get a sniper into position. And because its not very damn useful to have a sniper rifle in ye average arab town where visibility might be 20-50 meters tops. And because the danger involved for the sniper team would be impossible to motivate, basically you would be sending in two Israelis alone into the most terrorist infested places on earth. There you would expect them to find a good hiding spot (easy in a town with a gazillion arabs running around) and you would expect them to be able to take the target out and then extract....yeah

Sounds like a job for Mr Black

Offline Shuckins

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3412
Who do you support in the IDF-Arabs conflict?
« Reply #48 on: July 28, 2004, 10:42:47 AM »
Hmm...Staga....I thought it through quite well, thank you.  The Israelis have found it necessary to protect their farming communities with military hardware since before 1948...BEFORE they had tanks, aircraft, etc.  That was because Arab "insurgents" were infiltrating into these villages at night and killing as many Israelis, regardless of age or sex, as they could get their hands on.  Even school children were not safe.  This was during the time of British occupation when it was forbidden for Jewish settlers to possess firearms.

 The Israelis aren't attacking Arab settlements along the Gaza strip and the Jordan River just to get their jollies.  They are dealing with an enemy that will murder children in a school bus by suicide bombing.  Negotiating with the "Palestinian Authority" endlessly has proven to be pointless.  Hamaas and Hezbollah are organizations composed of murderous thugs who have no intentions of living in harmony with the Israelis.  They, and many Palestinians, will not be content until Israel is destroyed and they have dipped their hands in Jewish blood.  

Let Israel's military be overwhelmed and you'll see a bloodbath of epic proportions.

If you lived there,  you would probably be just as stiff-necked about defense as the Israelis are.  There's nothing like having your family threatened to put one's viewpoint in the proper perspective.

Dredlock, messengers of peace and moderation, such as the speaker I mentioned, do not live long in the Middle East.  Prince Faisal was killed by followers of radical muslims because he took a stance favoring the Balfour Declaration, which would have allowed Jews and Palestinians to organize two independent states in Palestine.  

The radicals would be perfectly willing to allow the Jews to live in Palestine, as long as they had no government of their own and were second-class citizens under an old-style Arab/Muslim government.

Offline Staga

  • Parolee
  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5334
      • http://www.nohomersclub.com/
Who do you support in the IDF-Arabs conflict?
« Reply #49 on: July 28, 2004, 11:28:59 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Shuckins
Hmm...Staga....I thought it through quite well, thank you.  The Israelis have found it necessary to protect their farming communities with military hardware since before 1948...BEFORE they had tanks, aircraft, etc.  That was because Arab "insurgents" were infiltrating into these villages at night and killing as many Israelis, regardless of age or sex, as they could get their hands on.  Even school children were not safe.  This was during the time of British occupation when it was forbidden for Jewish settlers to possess firearms.


You do understand that things like that happens when you're occupying a area other people were already living in don't you ?
Or are you saying Arabs begun attackin those innocents Israeli inside the Israel's borders just for the kicks ?

Offline mosgood

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1548
Who do you support in the IDF-Arabs conflict?
« Reply #50 on: July 28, 2004, 12:00:34 PM »
Let's all bow our heads in respect to the death of a great thread that started great and has sadly been hijacked by BB terrorist.....


:(

Offline Curval

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 11572
      • http://n/a
Who do you support in the IDF-Arabs conflict?
« Reply #51 on: July 28, 2004, 12:01:58 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by mosgood
Let's all bow our heads in respect to the death of a great thread that started great and has sadly been hijacked by BB terrorist.....


:(


:(
Some will fall in love with life and drink it from a fountain that is pouring like an avalanche coming down the mountain

Offline Shuckins

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3412
Who do you support in the IDF-Arabs conflict?
« Reply #52 on: July 28, 2004, 08:05:57 PM »
Staga,

Do you mean the so-called Palestinians?  Be specific.  

Are you referring to those whose ancestors lived there peaceably with Hassidic Jews for hundreds of years?  Or are you referring to the groups of "Palestinians" who wandered into the area during the upheaval accompanying the  break-up of the Turkish Empire...which consisted of Turks, Syrians, Iranians, and a dozen other ethnic groups that were not native to Palestine?  These wanderers came to the area hungry for land and settled here during the British Mandate...and almost immediately began vieing for the land with Diaspora Jews who began to return to the area in the early 1900's.

Even today the Israelis have few problems from the Palestinians descended from the long-time residents of the land.  The "Palestinians" who  fled Israel after its formation, and who wandered the Mediterranean region with Arafat for decades, were those who believed the promises of the murderous Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, who said that after the fighting was over they could return and have all the Jews land for themselves.

The only problem was, the Israelis did not lose that war...and these "refugees" were rendered landless and homeless.    They could have been taken in by any number of other Muslim nations in the Middle East and the Mediterranean, but nobody wanted them on a permanent basis.  Harboring a bitter hatred of the Israelis, they turned to wanton acts of terrorism.

Before you shed too many tears for them you would do well to remember that in the period after WWI there were prominent Muslim moderates who supported the establishment of a Jewish homeland.  They were murdered or intimidated by Arab radicals, led by the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem who spent World War II as a guest of Hitler, for he had been run out of Palestine at the insistence of moderate Arab leaders.  He helped organize an SS unit composed of east European Muslims.  Wearing a fez to distinguish themselves from other SS units, this group of thugs killed hundreds of thousands of Christians and Jews in  Yugoslavia.  The hatred they generated remains until the present time.  The "ethnic cleansings" that took place in the early 1990s in that region stems, in part, from those events.

The leader of that group, the aforesaid Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, played a large part in the establishment of Nazi-style governments in the Middle East, complete with gestapo style secret-police and racial hatred.

Offline Sandman

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 17620
Who do you support in the IDF-Arabs conflict?
« Reply #53 on: July 28, 2004, 09:05:37 PM »
Thanx Babek. I understand much more now.
sand

Offline Regular

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 745
Who do you support in the IDF-Arabs conflict?
« Reply #54 on: July 29, 2004, 12:24:52 AM »
Rudi Bakithar (i think thats how her last names is spelled), that chick on CNN HeadLine news is from Iran. And she is a republician.


I think she is so cute. Her accent is sweet.

blah blah blah yea yea im in love with her.:)

Offline Staga

  • Parolee
  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5334
      • http://www.nohomersclub.com/
Who do you support in the IDF-Arabs conflict?
« Reply #55 on: July 29, 2004, 01:52:08 AM »
Schuckins where are those tanks covering Israeli farms?
Is israel really so dangerous country that it has to guard its farmers with tanks and attack helicopters inside its borders?

Offline Thrawn

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6972
Who do you support in the IDF-Arabs conflict?
« Reply #56 on: July 29, 2004, 08:42:40 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Regular
Rudi Bakithar (i think thats how her last names is spelled), that chick on CNN HeadLine news is from Iran. And she is a republician.


I think she is so cute. Her accent is sweet.

blah blah blah yea yea im in love with her.:)





http://www.cnn.com/CNN/anchors_reporters/bakhtiar.rudi.html

Daaaammmn.

Offline Shuckins

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3412
Who do you support in the IDF-Arabs conflict?
« Reply #57 on: July 29, 2004, 09:43:10 AM »
Staga,

Yes it IS that dangerous.  Israel doesn't have tanks enough to cover every farming community, so they allocate them to those in the areas where the greatest danger of attack can be expected, especially along the northern and northeastern borders.

   But even along the eastern and southern borders one finds barbed wire fences, armed guards at the gates, and armed citizens everywhere.  This country requires three years of military service from all of its citizens for good reason.  

It's amusing to me to hear personal-liberty conscious Americans whining about the new airport security measures being taken here in the U.S.  These new measures are a pale imitation of those in place at Ben-Gurion Airport in Israel.

Israel is an armed camp.  One finds soldiers and citizens carrying "not-so-concealed" weapons everywhere.  They do not live this way by choice.  Indeed, they have no choice in the matter.  Their stiff-necked character has been largely shaped by the threat of terrorist and insurgent attacks.  The Israelis are not alone in this struggle.  They receive support from the Druze militia.  

This no-nonsense approach to security has led to something of a paradox.  Domestic violence and crime is extremely low.  While one might find instances of a deranged worker opening fire on fellow workers here in the U.S., such a thing is virtually unknown in Israel.  About 20 years ago two terrorists armed themselves with AK-47's, pistols and a buttload of ammunition stormed into an Israeli restaurant intent on killing as many Jews as possible.  They managed to kill two before the other patrons overwhelmed them with personal weaponry.  One was killed and the other captured.  The survivor expressed outrage that so many of his intended victims had been armed.

The paradox is this...finding no helpless victims in Israel, the terrorists have changed their tactics from gun-n-run to suicide bombings.  These terrorists are slipping into Israel hidden among the thousands of Palestinian workers who cross security checkpoints every day to go to jobs in the private sector.  As security has tightened at these checkpoints, they have shifted to crossing into Jewish territory in the spaces between Palestinian and Israeli villages.  

Thus, the reason for the "infamous" security wall that is under construction.  This structure would not have become necessary if the first Bush administration and the Clinton administration had not insisted that the Israeli government allow Arafat's "Palestinians" to settle "next door."

 Before that bit of idiocy Arafat had been considered one of the world's leading terrorists.  Israeli hard-liners were against it, but many of the regular citizenry were so desperate for peace that they consented to it.  Rabin's skin must have crawled when Clinton insisted that he shake Arafat's hand on the lawn of the White House.

Arafat is a disciple and "god-son" of Grand Mufti Haj Amin al-Husseini of Jerusalem (Grand Mufti of Jerusalem).  Kicked out of Palestine by the British because of his radical violent politics, he was the wartime guest of Adolf Hitler and personally organized a Muslim SS unit.  If you want to gain an understanding about the origins of much of the anti-Jewish violence in the Middle East, go to google and look him up.

 It will be quite enlightening.

Regards, Shuckins/Leggern

Offline SirLoin

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5708
Who do you support in the IDF-Arabs conflict?
« Reply #58 on: July 29, 2004, 10:06:11 AM »
Those pics do speak volumes.
**JOKER'S JOKERS**

Offline Staga

  • Parolee
  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5334
      • http://www.nohomersclub.com/
Who do you support in the IDF-Arabs conflict?
« Reply #59 on: July 29, 2004, 10:18:41 AM »
Schuckins;
people should already know that when a country is practising Apartheid- and "Lebensraum" policies there may appear some problems with the people who lived in that area before these "settlers".

Nazies were kicked out from areas they occupied in WW2 and I hope one day same will happen for every country practising that policy.

Including Israel.