BMW801D2 Horsepower at 1.62ata

[Crumpp]

There was ONLY one size of GM1 tank that could be fitted to the 190A

Milo,

What game are you trying to play here??

I know there is only ONE size of GM-1 tank.  There are two different tanks that can be fitted.

1 x GM-1

or

1 x 115 Liter Aux tank.

As to the 30kg or 40kg weight question, you stated previously it was 30kg and then changed it to 40kg. A full weight you say is 120kg, so then if it is 40kg, then 115l is not the tank capacity. Or are you now going to say 130kg full?

I have seen it listed as both, Milo.  The 115 liter tank came as a self-sealing tank.  However towards the end of the war it was not produced as a self sealing tank, just a simple tank. Germany had an accute shortage of latex hence rubber was in short supply. Just check out the Bf-109G-14 test you posted.  If its the one I am thinking off.  It had a plywood insturment panel and a none self sealing aux tank.

The self-sealing version weighed 40 kg empty as per the manual.

Crumpp

[MiloMorai]

No game. If you knew there was only one size of GM1, then why did you say this:

How do you explain different size tanks available for GM-1?

There was another 2 sizes of 'fuel' tanks, either 115l and 140l. The 115l being the usual fit. Why could you not have said 40kg 'with' and 30kg 'without' from the beginning.

That G-14 was one of the first off the production line being shot down 22 July. Production started in July 1944. Btw, the P-51 had a plywood cockpit floor.

I guess you missed Issy's post about the use of wood.

For the Jabo-einsatzs:
Even with climbing to altitude, the jagd-einsatz's burn less fuel distance for distance than a Jabo-einsatz. Weight and flying at lower altitudes are the cause. An internal tank which carries some fuel, doesn't touch their main fuel tanks, and allows them 7 minutes more of "on demand power" over the previous FW-190 C3 erhöhte Notleistung is a quantum leap in performance at the tip of the spear for the jabos.

For the Jagd-einsatz's the story is different. Their "on demand" power system burned fuel but nothing like the fuel hungry 70 liters in 5 minutes rate of C3 erhöhte Notleistung. When the fuel consumption is considered for just getting to and from the combat box C3 erhöhte Notleistung did not represent a quantum leap in "on demand power" performance for the jagd-einsatz's in practical combat. Depending on fuel it ranged from better to worse. It was extra weight for small gains over the 1.65ata for 10 minutes without it. When you consider that after December '44 the jagdwaffe were being bounced on take off with increasing frequency by Allied fighters, an extra 264.5lbs just does not make sense.

For the R7/R8 rustsatz's the 115-liter tank makes perfect sense as well. They needed the extra fuel to go the same distance as the fighters protecting them and the extra weight certainly was not going to make a difference in their performance.

Crumpp you flip-flop more than that Muskie I caught last weekend.

A jabo A-8 carrying a SC500 bomb had a range of from 45km to 65 km less than the fighter A-8 depending on altitude flown at. Both had the 115l aux installed.

A standard fighter is burdened by the aux tank but the much heavier /R8 is not. Please make up your mind.

[Crumpp]

Milo,

Sources are conflicting on the use of the 115 liter and the 85 liter.  Some say the same tank could be used for both LNOX and AvGas.  The manual does not mention anything other than AvGas going into the 115 liter.  I personally find it suspect that a tank set up for AvGas could be used for LNOX without some changes to the pump, fittings, etc...

This one says it could be used in both tanks:
 
 http://www.ipmsusa.org/Reviews/Books/Aircraft/Specialty_Bf-109_Recognition_Manual/Specialty_bf-109_Recognition_Manual.htm

And how long could the Jabo use C3 erhöhte Notleistung over the target area and still get home without the aux tank??  Adding that extra 115 liters gave him a full 7 minutes of "on demand power" he did not have before the tank was fitted.

A jabo A-8 carrying a SC500 bomb had a range of from 45km to 65 km less than the fighter A-8 depending on altitude flown at. Both had the 115l aux installed.

Key phrase:

on altitude flown at.

I guess if common sense was common everyone would have it. So I will explain it for you.

A standard fighter is burdened by the aux tank but the much heavier /R8 is not.  Please make up your mind.

Here is the weight of the armour of the FW-190 Sturmjager:

http://www.terra.es/personal2/matias.s/190-armor-1-800.jpg

It performance is already porked.  It burns much more fuel than the lighter fighters who are escorting it just by the nature of it's weight increase.  Adding the 115 liter Aux tank won't harm it performance and will increase it's range without the extra drag of a drop tank.  Now I have only seen 1 or 2 FW-190A R7/R8's with the 115 liter tank.

Too sum it all up:

The 115 liter tank was an optional accessory.

It made sense for FW-190A using C3 erhöhte Notleistung to carry the 115 liter tank.

The Jabo-einsatz was dependant upon the use of C3 erhöhte Notleistung otherwise it was not cleared for 1.65ata.  The 115 liter tank represented a quantum leap in time available for "on demand power"

The jagd-einsatz in the FW-190A was cleared for 1.65 ata without C3 erhöhte Notleistung.  C3 erhöhte Notleistung did not represent a quantum leap and depending on the target worked out to more or less time at "on demand power" at a tremendous cost in fuel consumption.

With a significant portion of the FW-190's being used as jabo-einsatz's it makes perfect sense to include the 115 liter tank with the A/C saving the units the trouble of ordering it through the supply system.

Therefore to most realistically model the FW-190A8 in AH.  The 115 liter tank should be included in the hanger and IMO linked to C3 erhöhte Notleistung.  

It must be pointed out though that the C3 erhöhte Notleistung system was in no way actually dependant on the 115 liter tank and drew fuel from all the tanks.

Crumpp