Author Topic: Picture is Worth a Thousand Words (Read 4424 times)

midnight Target · « **Reply #120 on:** August 03, 2004, 03:22:07 PM »

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A total of 14 or 15 F-102 fighters were lost in Vietnam. Three were shot down by anti-aircraft or small arms fire, one is believed to have been lost in air-to-air combat with a MiG-21, four were destroyed on the ground during Viet Cong attacks, and the remainder succumbed to training accidents.

I had heard the 102 was never deployed to VN. I heard wrong.

http://www.aerospaceweb.org/question/history/q0185.shtml

DoKGonZo · « **Reply #121 on:** August 03, 2004, 03:26:06 PM »

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Originally posted by anonymous
... bush sr was combat pilot second world war you saying he lacked moral character to point that he thought his son should not go in harms way like he did? kerry didnt tell anyone they were fediddleing up the war he lied and claimed us forces in vn were "equivalent of waffen ss".

That's all he said, huh?

Reviewing Bush Jr's pre-presidential years one could easily conclude that the acorn fell more than a stone's throw from the tree.

Scatcat · « **Reply #122 on:** August 03, 2004, 03:26:33 PM »

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Originally posted by Cabby44
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"He tried to save American lives. Not to help the commies."

Yeah, by declaring that he and his "band of brothers" committed "war crimes", "atrocities", etc., routinely as a "matter of policy". Yeah, that "saves American lives" and does not provide "aid and comfort" to the Commies. And i have green hair on my ass.

I saw and heard Kerry say it on TV. It's not Michael Moore-style propaganda bull****. It's a fact. You can make excuses for that P.O.S. all you like. The fact remains, Kerry is a worthless, lying, opportunistic demogogue of the lowest order who disgraced his country and the United States Armed Forces....

C.

Well, Kerry claims to have committed war crimes then he needs to be in a federal prison not in the White House.

AWMac · « **Reply #123 on:** August 03, 2004, 03:31:01 PM »

Amen!!!!

I kinda thought that Hanoi Jane had a better chance of being Kerry's running mate than Edwards...

Still can't wait fer her to pass on... I hope I'm the 1st to pisss on her grave...

*insert Triump the Insulting Dawg*

Or Something to

POOP ON!!!!

Lizking · « **Reply #124 on:** August 03, 2004, 03:32:06 PM »

I have searched for Kerry claiming to have committed war crimes, and can not find anything to that effect.

AWMac · « **Reply #125 on:** August 03, 2004, 03:38:38 PM »

Hmmmm..... maybe a Google on History...

USA Congressional Hearings, Kerry, 1969-1975.

Or somewhere in there... BTW Kerry quickly pulled alot after he was heading to Boston...

*1 Lump or 2 in yer tea?*

Free America !

***BTW LizKing... you haven't searched shiit....Have Mom or Daddy help you Son....***

DoKGonZo · « **Reply #126 on:** August 03, 2004, 05:11:51 PM »

This was just the first google in the list:

http://lists.village.virginia.edu/sixties/HTML_docs/Resources/Primary/Manifestos/VVAW_Kerry_Senate.html

Try reading past the first few paragraphs this time and you'll find passages like:

Someone has to die so that President Nixon won't be, and these are his words, "the first President to lose a war."

and

In our opinion and from our experience, there is nothing in South Vietnam which could happen that realistically threatens the United States of America. And to attempt to justify the loss of one American life in Vietnam, Cambodia or Laos by linking such loss to the preservation of freedom, which those misfits supposedly abuse, is to us the height of criminal hypocrisy, and it is that kind of hypocrisy which we feel has torn this country apart.

Parts of the text are pretty harsh stuff, including a reference to Ghengis Khan. And if that's all you decide to see in his statement, then your impression of the man will be obviously stilted.

Lizking · « **Reply #127 on:** August 03, 2004, 05:27:03 PM »

I searched and read alot, including transcripts of his testimony and atricles, but he never said it. Show me a transcript where he did.

MrLars · « **Reply #128 on:** August 03, 2004, 06:21:55 PM »

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Originally posted by Scatcat
Well, Kerry claims to have committed war crimes then he needs to be in a federal prison not in the White House.

What JK was refering to was the legality of killing civilians of all ages in a 'free fire zone', that's what we were ordered to do. However, it is against the Geneva Conventions to do so.

That is why he turned to activism to stop the war and the sending of draftees to become fodder for a g'ment who had put politics ahead of common sense while running a war.

Those who would have been drafted from '72 onward, if the war continued at the same pace, are the ones that should be thanking JK for his activism. I suspect that some members of this forum benifited from his actions by being able to live their life normaly, free of the burden of wondering whether the lottery would chose them for service in a war that wasn't winable at the time and then current politcal atmosphere.

Lazerus · « **Reply #129 on:** August 03, 2004, 06:30:51 PM »

wintersoldier.com is a pretty good site. It has complete transcripts of the senate hearings, with many links. Tons of raw info. The link is to the page with the hearing transcripts. More topics are linked on the left.

Martlet · « **Reply #130 on:** August 03, 2004, 06:36:02 PM »

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Originally posted by MrLars
What JK was refering to was the legality of killing civilians of all ages in a 'free fire zone', that's what we were ordered to do. However, it is against the Geneva Conventions to do so.

That is why he turned to activism to stop the war and the sending of draftees to become fodder for a g'ment who had put politics ahead of common sense while running a war.

Those who would have been drafted from '72 onward, if the war continued at the same pace, are the ones that should be thanking JK for his activism. I suspect that some members of this forum benifited from his actions by being able to live their life normaly, free of the burden of wondering whether the lottery would chose them for service in a war that wasn't winable at the time and then current politcal atmosphere.

So you don't have a problem with him being an admitted war criminal?

MrLars · « **Reply #131 on:** August 03, 2004, 07:18:11 PM »

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Originally posted by Martlet
So you don't have a problem with him being an admitted war criminal?

Put into the proper context, no. The real criminals are those who's policys forced the military to conduct unlawfull actions.

anonymous · « **Reply #132 on:** August 03, 2004, 07:20:16 PM »

docgonzo just so we clear i wouldnt really call myself republican. i dont dislike democrat. some democrat politician are great servants of america just like some republican politician are worthless scum. my beef is with extreme antiamerican left that has existed since communism. in american politics they hide in liberal democratic crowd. very small percent i am talking about but they largely avoid ever answer for action. clinton was one of my cic and although some bad things happen on his watch as cic he never solely responsible. pres versus pres arguments are stupid and uneducated. takes bad pres bad secdef bad members of armed services committee bad congress to do real damage. if kerry elected i do not think war on terror will go bad or world will end. cic only responsible for part of decision. cic only as good or as bad as advisors and career military and intel guys working for him and these guys dont have party affiliation they are professionals. i just dont like kerry because to me he did not keep the faith when he lied in testimony about us military. very serious to me i am retired us military. someone call you "l-word" so what?

Martlet · « **Reply #133 on:** August 03, 2004, 07:25:58 PM »

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Originally posted by MrLars
Put into the proper context, no. The real criminals are those who's policys forced the military to conduct unlawfull actions.

Ahhhh, so the Germans who ran the concentration camps and the soldiers who marched the Jews into the showers were innocent?

What about the Japs that executed POWs and used them as bayonet practice. They were innocent too?

MrCoffee · « **Reply #134 on:** August 03, 2004, 07:26:13 PM »

Well I just wanted to know so I did more research and since I joked about Bush's NG service, its only fair to shed light on Kerrys post war activities. So it seems to me that he may have been caught up with the times and movements. I personaly do not feel that a veteran who took the lives of the enemy and civilians in free fire zones during operations constructed by his superiors would come home and purposly lie to an natrional audience. A man who later went to law school and became a prosecutor of all things. So here is an article that covers some facts and issues regarding this event. I've read a number of them and they are often right wing based but this article seems the most fair and honest of them without the excessive slandering. I've made up my mind after reading these and knowing a few things myself from the history that I have read. **** happens. Maybe some people lied and were motivated but I do not believe that Kerry lied.