Author Topic: Spit 5 (Read 12916 times)

Ohio330 · « **on:** August 04, 2004, 07:02:55 AM »

Well, being new to this game, and hearing the Spits were
the dweeb rides-such as I am- I regularly took the Spit 9
out..getting my arse beat down alot. Someone sugested to take the Spit 5 out so I did. I was trying to find something about the
5 that was weaker than the 9, but I couldn't tell. I felt the
5 turned better, which I was already told it would, and also
felt the WEP was more powerful. What's better about the 9?

Schutt · « **Reply #1 on:** August 04, 2004, 07:10:40 AM »

Spit 9 has more power as in more top speed and better climb.

And if you take the 2 .50 instead of the 4 .303 you get more firepower.

Spit 9 has the ability to take a drop tank for long range missions and can carry more bomb load.

Spits are slow and turning, so if you want save rtb after a mission might want something faster.

Ohio330 · « **Reply #2 on:** August 04, 2004, 07:14:25 AM »

Ya, I was using the 5 for base defense, so it seemed good in
that role. Ok, thanks for the info.

Karnak · « **Reply #3 on:** August 04, 2004, 10:17:02 AM »

We have a weak 1942 Merlin 61 powered Spit IX, not the much more common and more powerful 1943 Merlin 66 powered Spit IX.

On the other hand we have an overboosted Spitfire Mk V as was done in an attempt to make it more capable of fighting Fw190s.

The only place in AH that the Spit IX will be decisively better is anywhere over 20,000ft.

bozon · « **Reply #4 on:** August 04, 2004, 01:19:58 PM »

yep, the major unperked RAF fighter in the MA is a 1942 plane and the worst possible IX model ...

Bozon

JBA · « **Reply #5 on:** August 04, 2004, 03:21:43 PM »

http://www.netaces.org

How to Compare Planes

Soda's Aircraft Evaluations

Plane Performance Data

Aircraft Weapon Performance

great cite for plane comparisons

Crumpp · « **Reply #6 on:** August 04, 2004, 03:36:50 PM »

Quote

We have a weak 1942 Merlin 61 powered Spit IX, not the much more common and more powerful 1943 Merlin 66 powered Spit IX.

I am pretty sure we have the Merlin 66 (+25) Spitfire Mk IX. If it is the Merlin 61 (+15) then some things are really porked.

Anybody know for sure??

Crumpp

Nashwan · « **Reply #7 on:** August 04, 2004, 03:46:34 PM »

We definately have the Merlin 61 engined Spit F IX.

You could try a couple of quick tests, speed at sea level should be around 320 with a Merlin 61, 335 with Merlin 66. Climb rate should be 3700 - 3800 ft/min below say 8,000ft with a Merlin 61, 4700 ft/min or so for a Merlin 66.

Edit: Just saw the +25 lbs bit. The Spit IX with Merlin 66 at 25 lbs should do about 360 mph at sea level, and have a climb rate of well over 5000 ft/min at low level.

Crumpp · « **Reply #8 on:** August 04, 2004, 04:21:43 PM »

Just checked out NetAces charts.

If that data is correct then we have a Merlin 66 (+25) Spitfire MkIX for level speed.

For climb it seems to correspond with the Merlin 61 (+18) Spitfire Mk IX.

IMO after researching the FW190 extensively. An FW-190A8 would dominate a Spitfire MkIX Merlin 61 (+18). The Merlin 61's main FW190 opponent was the FW-190A4 thru FW-190A6.

The correct rival for the FW-190A8 was the Spitfire Mk IX Merlin 66(+25). They should be a very even match in a dogfight with pilot skill determining the winner.

I read somewhere that HTC will be looking at the Flight Models here soon to correct them. There has been quite a bit of data on WWII fighters that has surfaced in the last 5 years. I am sure it will be corrected.
If it means anything IMO it certainly should be corrected.

Crumpp

Karnak · « **Reply #9 on:** August 04, 2004, 04:32:14 PM »

Crump,

The AH Spit IX tops out at 321mph at SL. The Merlin 61 Spit IX did as well, The Merlin 66 Spit at +18lbs boost topped out at 336mph at SL. At +25lbs boost it hit about 350mph at SL.

Where are you getting the Merlin 66 Spit IX as being that slow?

The Spitfire LF.Mk IX and Fw190A-5 were introduced at the same time.

Only 300 Merlin 61 Spitfire Mk IX's were built.

I doubt the Fw190A-8 would dominate any Spitfire that was aware of it. All that extra armor is too much of a handicap. The Fw190A-8 is for bomber killing.

Nashwan · « **Reply #10 on:** August 04, 2004, 04:46:53 PM »

Quote

Just checked out NetAces charts.

If that data is correct then we have a Merlin 66 (+25) Spitfire MkIX for level speed.

I can't see this either.

The AH Spit IX does 320 mph at sea level, which is what you'd expect from a Merlin 61 at 15 lbs.

Where are you getting that this speed should be for a Merlin 66 at 25 lbs boost?

If you're looking at top speed at altitude, then you won't see much difference between the Merlin 61, 66 or 66 at 25 lbs boost. The increased boost only functioned at lower levels, 25 lbs would simply decline to 18 lbs at critical altitude.

There may be a minor speed increase with 25 lbs, but because the extra power was developed low down, it had little effect on maximum speed.

Quote

For climb it seems to correspond with the Merlin 61 (+18) Spitfire Mk IX.

The Merlin 61 never ran at 18 lbs, the limit was 15 lbs. The AH Spit climbs like a Merlin 61 engined Spit at 15 lbs.

Quote

I read somewhere that HTC will be looking at the Flight Models here soon to correct them. There has been quite a bit of data on WWII fighters that has surfaced in the last 5 years. I am sure it will be corrected.
If it means anything IMO it certainly should be corrected.

The in game Spit IX is a Merlin 61 F IX. Pyro has said as much in the past.

Whilst it's possible they may introduce a Merlin 66 engined Spit VIII or IX, they won't model it with 25 lbs boost, unless it's heavily perked.

At low altitudes, a Spitfire LF IX with 25 lbs would be as fast as the in game Spit XIV, and climb much better, as well as turning better than the existing Spit IX in game.

Fruda · « **Reply #11 on:** August 04, 2004, 05:14:31 PM »

The Spits are *not* dweeb rides. People complain because they turn very well at low speeds, and have excellent lift due to the shape of their wings.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with the Spit 9 we have in the game right now. It has very good performance. If we had the Merlin 66, it would have to be very heavily perked, almost to the level of the Spit 14.

The high-powered Spit model we have is the Mk. V. The added boost really drains your fuel, but it helps you in a pinch.

Learn to fly the Spit 5. It's easy to use, and is very forgiveable.

Crumpp · « **Reply #12 on:** August 04, 2004, 06:26:41 PM »

http://www.fourthfightergroup.com/eagles/spit9.html

Got the info from this website. Unless I read it wrong, then If we have a Merlin 61 (+15) then it's alittle fast at altitude judging from the Netaces chart and what the Spit could actually do.

Quote

I doubt the Fw190A-8 would dominate any Spitfire that was aware of it. All that extra armor is too much of a handicap. The Fw190A-8 is for bomber killing.

Common misconception Karnak. I would be glad to share the weight charts from the Luftwaffe Flugzeug-handbuch provided you give me a good contact number and a written declaration (email) they will not post it or publish it. I will also share the BMW801D2 power charts. The stuff is copyrighted even against posting on the web. Pyro already has the information.

Comparing the Spitfire Mk V thru Mk IX to the 190A3 thru 190A8.

The 190 gained half the wieght/wingloading and an equal amount of Horsepower. The Hp-Wt ratio of the FW-190A8 jagd-einsatz is slightly worse than the A3. The difference is in the the HUNDRETHS. The extra weight would have translated into better dive accelleration, zoom climb and the same level accelleration. the level speed would have dropped, which it did, but it was still enough to maintain a level speed advantage over the Spit Mk IX at the altitudes the 190 had the advanatge. All in All a performance improvement in the 190's traditional strengths. The 190's climb speed is also much higher than the Spits but it's climb angle is shallower.

Not to sound arrogant. I appologize if it comes across that way on this BBS. Please don't start posting a bunch of weight comparisions. The ONLY published material I have seen on the 190A which lists the correct weights is:

http://www.schifferbooks.com/newschiffer/book_template.php?isbn=076431940X

Here is a great scientific comparision of some of the A/C kind of illustrate what I am talking about. The charts are down at the bottom.

http://www.anycities.com/user/j22/j22/aero.htm

The A8 being more heavily armoured is also a Myth. In the jadg-einsatz's ONLY the R7/R8 rustsatz kits added any armour. They were the "Sturm" fighters especially armoured to get close and destroy Allied bombers. I would love to have them as an option for the FW-190A8.
The FW-190A8 "normaljager" had the same armour as the FW-190A3 with the exception of the pilots head armour. In the FW-190A4 the headrest armour was widenend and made 5 mm thicker. It added only a few kilo's to the weight. The next armour upgrade occurred in the FW-190A9 which had a slightly thicker oil cooler ring armour. In the RAF test of Fabers 190A3 is a hand-drawn diagram of the FW-190A's armour for a fighter version. You can read the test here:

http://prodocs.netfirms.com/

Crumpp

Karnak · « **Reply #13 on:** August 04, 2004, 06:39:35 PM »

Ah. It would seem then that the AH Fw190A-8 is an Fw190A-8/R7 or R8 because it is truely a pig in climb and manuvering.

It is this Fw190A-8 that I was basing my coments on.

I think the Fw190A-5 is a great handling aircraft and a delight to fly as modeled in AH. The Fw190A-8 is a hopeless pig as modeled in AH.

But keep in mind that the Fw190A-8 was introduced in early 1944. The Spitfire LF.Mk IX was introduced in March, 1943.

Nashwan · « **Reply #14 on:** August 04, 2004, 06:56:20 PM »

Quote

Got the info from this website. Unless I read it wrong, then If we have a Merlin 61 (+15) then it's alittle fast at altitude judging from the Netaces chart and what the Spit could actually do.

That's the right website

BF274 (the Spit in that test) did 403 mph at 27,400 ft. I just tested the AH Spit now, and got 411 mph at 27,400ft. That's within what you could expect in natural variation between aircraft, but the AH Spit IX is also cleaner than BF274.

BF274 had an external mirror without fairing, AH doesn't have the mirror at all, BF274 had the extended bulges for twin cannon in each wing (even though it only had single cannons), the AH Spit has the single bulges.

Allowing for the reduced drag, the AH Spit IX looks spot on for a Merlin 61.

Same is true for low altitude. I got 318 mph just above sea level, BF274 312 mph at sea level, which again is correct when you look at the drag difference.

A Merlin 66 Spit IX should get around 335, (Inc mirror), at 25 lbs it should be close to 360 mph.