Am thinking 88puffy flak at bases need to be fixed

[DREDIOCK]

Originally posted by kevykev56
DREDIOCK maybe its flying style. You may not be as aggressively flying near or around this stuff. If you are primaraly upping base defense then no you wouldnt die in it. However If you take your squad in, drop eggs on the FH, and attempt to straffe down acks while fighting off agressors. Two of your 10 pilots are killed/lose engine/oil or damaged in some other way by the puffy stuff prior to going in or fighting the bad guys.

I have no probs dying by someones hand " I do it regularly". I just dont like being killed by AI. I play this game for the challenge of fighting another human. There is no way to win at this AI88 game. You can jink, turn, change speed/alt and by a random factor you will die. It just ruins a flight thats all.

If it stays the same fine. I would just like to know the rules ie.
RHIN0

I rarely fly base defence.I beleive if all you do is is fly defence over your own base all your accomplishing is barely delaying the inevitable loss of your base.
 If anything Im almost always in attack mode.  Best defence is to stay on the offencive. Which is why I am usually outnumbered 6-1 and more often then not more 95% of the time I fight.

But I've sometimes loitered in the puffy ack leisurly flying around in circles and rarely get hit by it.
Often when flying ot a base my coarse puts me right over an enemy factory or other instalation.
If there arent any enemies in the area Im on autopilot and just cruise right over them and dont even bother touching the joystick when the puffy ack starts bursting and barely even bother paying attention to it other then to admire how cool it looks.

On the other hand what usually does nail me is the smaller calibre unmanned feild ack.
LOL there are times when I seem to attract that stuff like fleas to an old dog no matter how I fly

[DREDIOCK]

Originally posted by kevykev56



5. Does enemy fighters receive damage from there own AI88s?

RHIN0

Near as I can tell. No
I know I have never been shot down or damaged from fire from my own AA guns
Nor do I personally know anyone who has

There was some clown claiming it did on a thread a month or so ago. but he was revealed to be just that.
A clown

[DREDIOCK]

Originally posted by Ohio330
I think it would be cool if they changed the 88 from AI
to mannable positions.  Then the acuracy would vary and
be more realistic.

I think it would be cool if we had a combination of both.
I dont agree that AI  AA guns have no buisness being in this game.
that is untill we can get enough players willing to gun ALL the positions all the time.
Without the AI ack somebases would be almost completely defenceless. and make base captures entirely too easy.
Unless you want to have less bases. Which doesnt seem to be the desire of the current player base at this time

[DREDIOCK]

Originally posted by MoRphEuS
88's ruin alot of good fights. It ruins and has ruined many good sorties. Compared to AH1 88's are more ubber now than hispanios and I wont even begin to talk about the unrealistic accuracy of the crap.

somehow I'd be willing to bet that 88's ruined alot of good flights in real life too.

8th airforce lost and had damaged quite a few planes to enemy ack in WWII
so it couldnt be all that unrealistic

Want the proof?
German flak batteries always set their aim on the lead aircraft of a formation and often hit them. A shell struck this 91BG lead while bomb doors were open and radome extended. Despite the gaping wound the bomber was brought back for a safe landing at Rackheath, November 6, 1944.
Source: Mighty Eighth War Diary by Roger A. Freeman


And
This B-17 took a direct flak hit in the waist over Debrecen, Hungary which killed three crewmen and wounded two others. Threatening to come apart in mid-air the pilot nursed it home to a safe landing, but the weakened fuselage collapsed on touchdown.
Text and photo source: Air Classics magazine, July 1972
 

BTW HTC

any Chances we will see this kinda damage shown visially in AHII?
 http://www.daveswarbirds.com/b-17/contents.htm

[Overlag]

Originally posted by DREDIOCK
somehow I'd be willing to bet that 88's ruined alot of good flights in real life too.

8th airforce lost and had damaged quite a few planes to enemy ack in WWII
so it couldnt be all that unrealistic

Want the proof?
German flak batteries always set their aim on the lead aircraft of a formation and often hit them. A shell struck this 91BG lead while bomb doors were open and radome extended. Despite the gaping wound the bomber was brought back for a safe landing at Rackheath, November 6, 1944.
Source: Mighty Eighth War Diary by Roger A. Freeman


And
This B-17 took a direct flak hit in the waist over Debrecen, Hungary which killed three crewmen and wounded two others. Threatening to come apart in mid-air the pilot nursed it home to a safe landing, but the weakened fuselage collapsed on touchdown.
Text and photo source: Air Classics magazine, July 1972
 

BTW HTC

any Chances we will see this kinda damage shown visially in AHII?
 http://www.daveswarbirds.com/b-17/contents.htm

you prove our point exactly though dred, that is a B17 its a BOMBER, BIG, slow and loads of tight formations of B17s are easy targets for 88's, NOT a turning, fast, small fighter

[Hyrax81st]

Originally posted by Overlag
you prove our point exactly though dred, that is a B17 its a BOMBER, BIG, slow and loads of tight formations of B17s are easy targets for 88's, NOT a turning, fast, small fighter

...

It's just like herd animals - the more clump together, the less chance a particular individual (all other things being equal) will be picked off. At the same time, the chance for the predator to get at least one kill goes way up.

The B-17 survived some amazing amounts of flak damage because it was a great design - and wasn't pressurized.

[Chortle]

That 2nd B17 pic is just amazing and rather sobering, guess the waist gunners never knew what hit them.

Its been a while since I played due to the shocking realisation that the world doesn't owe me a living but overall I'd say the 88's seem a bit flakey (hehe) specially when it comes to firing through hills. I ditched near a field in beta, completely out of line of sight yet had flak bursts going off around me. Strangely none of them hit.

I have taken all kinds of damage from them though, from insta pilot kills to losing oil so I think thats about right.

It is a bummer dieing to AI online but I guess its the only way to give a base some defense before people realise whats going on. It would be nice to have auto ack until someone jumps in the position.

Lastly, someone mentioned il2 which is where I've been getting my fix recently. Apart from being driven insane by the continuous whine of the constant speed props (one good reason to fly blue), I'd say the ack there is much less accurate.

[DipStick]

Originally posted by Overlag
you prove our point exactly though dred, that is a B17 its a BOMBER, BIG, slow and loads of tight formations of B17s are easy targets for 88's, NOT a turning, fast, small fighter

Not to mention the ack was controlled by a human. I almost always get pilot wound or wing shot off ( and I NEVER fly straight through it). I like the look of the puffy ack but I would really like to see it manned ONLY. We have the base under attack message and flashing bases, if nobody grabs a gun then we should lose the base. IMHO.

[Xargos]

I was 5 miles or more at 12K from a city & the 88's scored a direct hit on it's first shot.  Could not figure out what hit me at first but then I started to hear and see the flak.  And don't say someone shot me down because no one got a kill on me.

[Zanth]

Originally posted by kevykev56
5. Does enemy fighters receive damage from there own AI88s?

I have been destroyed by it, directly over our own base.   If it shoots at you I can tell you it hurts.  Friendlies in area thought it was quite entertaining to see me go "poof" as I was right on an enemy p47's 6 at the time - the enemy p47 was zooming out after dropping bombs, I got between the 88's and him - the 88 won.

[DREDIOCK]

Originally posted by Overlag
you prove our point exactly though dred, that is a B17 its a BOMBER, BIG, slow and loads of tight formations of B17s are easy targets for 88's, NOT a turning, fast, small fighter

No The pics just show the bombers survived it better

 Lt. Lenton F. Kirkland, Jr., a P-38 ace with the 474th FG 429 FS is downed by flak and killed near Liège.

Raymond V. Hearn, No.112 Squadron, Fano, Italy, during Febuary 1945. Hearn flew two tours with No.112 Sqn on Kittyhawks and Mustangs. He was the leader of B Flight and used the individual letter "Q" on his aircraft. He downed a Ju 188 in this machine on 9 September 1944, even though only one of his four guns was working. He was killed on what would have been his last sortie on 18 Febuary 1945, his plane exploding after being hit by flak.


Lt. Col. Luther H. Richmond, (left) CO 486th FS, talking with friend Lt. Col. W. Chamberlain, squadron commander in the 388th BG. Chamberlain had flown into Bodney in his B-17 to test fly Richmond's P-51B, code PZ-R, serial 43-7196. Chamberlain was KIA over the coast of France due to flak in May 1944, while Richmond was downed by flak and made POW April 15th, 1944. This photo from the first two weeks of April 1944 shows the Mustang sans the later sweeping blue nose treatment, applied to 352nd FG fighters a few weeks after this photo was taken

" On April 16th, 8th AF fighters from 15 groups claim the record of 747 LW planes destroyed on the ground while strafing airfields in Germany and Czechoslovakia, 34 American fighters are downed mostly by light flak and small arms and 30 LW planes are downed in dog-fights."--American Wings over Belgium


July 1944 - Lt. Gen. Lewis H. Brereton, Commanding General of the Ninth Air Force, pins the Distinguished Flying Cross on 1st Lt. William Y. Anderson  354 fighter group(left) of Chicago, Ill., in ceremonies on an air strip on the Cherbourg peninsula of France. Also: Lt. Anderson's plane "Swede's Steed" caught fire during a raid over Hanover, Germany when he was hit by flak. He beat out the flames, suffering blisters on his legs. In 49 sorties, he was hit five times by flak, downed two enemy aircraft, and damaged five others (7 Kills). He was 22 years old at the time the photo was taken.

[MwXX]

Rod, u a rook now? if so, 20k? what are u doing on the deck anyway?

Last I read, Rook SOP for bomb runs is STRATOSHPHERE MINIMUM!!!!!!!!!

theres your problem!

if ya are rook that is?

LMAO:rofl

[GScholz]

I think some people have a problem distinguishing between ack and flak. In AH game terms ack is the light AAA and flak is the 88s. In R/L no such distinction was made and those US fighters were probably lost to light AAA while attacking ground targets.

[DREDIOCK]

Originally posted by GScholz
I think some people have a problem distinguishing between ack and flak. In AH game terms ack is the light AAA and flak is the 88s. In R/L no such distinction was made and those US fighters were probably lost to light AAA while attacking ground targets.

You arent honestly gonna suggest that we didnt loose any fighters to 88s are ya?

And I suppose the Japs never lost any of their fighters to Puffy ack?
I personally know an eyewitness that would tell you otherwise.

Actually the sites I got the info from did distinguish between "light AA" and Flak.

Bottom line is as it is so often put. this is a WWII air combat sim.
Flack and light ack were both things that the fliers of all sides had to deal with.
And so it is here. And correctly so

Also if memory serves correct most of the time the fighters from both sides wouldnt go with the bombers directly over the target area where the Flak was thickest.
Which would better explain why not as many fighters got knocked down by Flack

It might be a good idea to simply stay away from the Flak range just as the fighters did in the war. Whenever possible that is

[GScholz]

I did not say that. Don't put words in my mouth.

Sure fighters were being hit by flak (not flack), but those were flukes rather then the daily multiple event that it is in the MA.