Interesting Toad...and actually quite valid IF the governor was able to be killed with a 9-iron.
If you recall there were 3 lives lost in the actual killing of our governor. His aide-de-camp and his dog were also murdered..
I don't recall what kind of dog it was, but any dog I have ever owned would never have let a guy with a 9-iron get close enough to be able to kill me.
A gun is a different matter. It is deadly from significantly farther away than a 9-iron.
That said, Wrag:
(here we go again)
You have witnessed part of how I feel about guns in this thread. Frankly I never gave the issue much thought until I visited the gun-shop (or Sportsman shop) that was attached to the hotel at the Con. You see, I was going there with Puck, Swoop (a Brit) and Ripsnort to shoot.
I love shooting guns, although I am pretty awful with a handgun due to a lack of any training. I am pretty good with a rifle, and was pretty darn good with a GPMG (general purpose machine gun [British Army issue]).
While in line to shoot I witnessed 3 guys efforts to put their newly aquired rifles back into the boxes...they had taken them out and were attempting to leave the store carrying them. The manager had told them they couldn't leave until the rifles were back in their respective boxes.
It was hilarious to watch them try to do this.
But, it also gave me "pause" when upon leaving the range I had a look around the store. The sheer volume of guns, ammo and other assorted gun-regalia, availiable to anyone with enough cash in their pockets was, to me, astounding. Then I started to put that fact together with the sheer stupidity of people who are alive and walking around in any given country and I was concerned. Concerned because I spend more time in the US then anywhere else when I am outside the United States.
For the first time in my life I actually thought about guns as an issue in my life in that my family would be in a country that allows anyone and everyone with enough cash and a clean record the opportunity to own deadly weapons.
Now, people like yourself, lazs and Toad do not concern me one bit. You know guns, you are well trained with guns and follow all safety measures to insure they, and the people around them, do not get hurt.
Can the same be said for the rest of the gun owners in your country? I would say categorically NO, based upon the numbers of accidental killings due to negligence or just plain accidents.
I mentioned this in a thread a while back.
Since then I have been labelled "anti-gun" by people like yourself.
I have no right to tell you what to do in your country so I am not trying to tell you what is right or wrong for you.
For me, and for where I live, I strongly oppose the free availiabilty of everyone to own guns as you have in your country.
Since 1971 not a single child has been hurt by accidental discharge of weapons. Our gang-war that is apparently going on right now consists of two groups of guys yelling at each other and brandishing knives in an effort to appear "tough". About six months ago two groups interupted a football match after a big fight broke out and spilled onto the pitch. About 30 guys were involved. Despite the presence of all kinds of "weapons", incuding machetes, knives and baseball bats only 3 people were taken to hospital. One had been stabbed with an ice-pick and was the most serious case. He was discharged the next day.
If guns were readily availiable I wonder if that story would have had a different ending.
As to your questions below:
"which is of greater importance to you, individual well being or the communities well being?
Would it better serve to create a reasonable answer if you graded it on a 50%/50% type scale?
Which is more important the general welfare of the community or the individual welfare of each member of that community?"
This is a very philosophical argument and frankly somewhat of a loaded question. I'm sure you have arguments prepared for whatever answer I give.
Read what I wrote above and draw your own conclusions.
You seem to think that this difference of opinion with respect to guns is something of a fundemetal difference in our two cultures and that we can never see "eye to eye" because of it. Well, so what?
Toad is my squaddie, a good friend and a guy I have huge respect for. Arguing here about guns makes no difference to our "relationship". In fact during this discussion we were corresponding in our squad forum about a Track IR set that he has ordered paid for and had shipped to me. We didn't even bring up this thread or the issues surrounding it. No need. We like to argue and discuss, that is all.
Take a look at the "8 limey poofter thread" started by lazs. He and Beet1e have a kind of "love/hate" relationship on the boards, but they have not only met in real life but actually shot guns together when Beet1e visited him in California.
So, when you say "I've come to believe that what either of us say regarding the issue is moot" you are right and wrong at the same time. Minds are rarely changed over a BBS discussion, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't discuss and throw the occasional jab in.
Example:
You also said "To me everything in my life says firearms are essential to my freedom, liberty, and general welfare."
To this I would reply:
I'm not surprised based on all of the violence you have witnessed in your life.
