Bomber Guns Ineffective

[allmeta1]

They are just changing the buffs to be rid of that terrible scourge the"buff troller".How many guys fly buffs just to troll for fighters?

[hitech]

Isn't this because the buff guns no longer converge at less than 1000 the way they used to in AH1?

Nothing has changed in the way convergance works on bombers. But I know we must have a big conspericy going on.

All that has changed is the hit detection, just like in fighters.

There is always a possiblity of a bug, but in this case it sounds more like you are just missing.


HiTech

[lucull]

Originally posted by hitech

All that has changed is the hit detection, just like in fighters.

HiTech

Could you give us some more info about this?

[Kev367th]

Sat in a buff with con at 600yrds pinging the crap outta him with little damage. If convergence hasn't changed from AH1, how come that was suicide in AH1, but they can do it AH2? It was almost like only 1 set of guns was hitting him.

In fact on the subject of buffs - Any chance of finally fixing the dive bombing Lancs etc, and the damage from 1 being transferred to all 3? Only been around since AH1.

[Overlag]

Originally posted by Blooz
Please.

Oh yes, bring back the days of the one ping kills at 2k range.

Sheesh.

WE are not saying that and infact THAT is still possble, if you had even BOTHERD to read this thread our problems with the guns are the fact that they CANT HIT (concentrated damage) within 1k, NOTE WITHIN, outside 1k they are still good....

Originally posted by Blooz

You bomber guys are just finding out the same thing the fighter jocks found out early in AH2. The gunnery is different now. We're adjusting and you need to adjust too. The target is smaller. You need to be more precise in your aiming and lead.

Fighter gunnery is EASY for me with AHII, because i never got used to the laser straight bullets in AHI, meaning that the new gunnery worked better for me. Because of this in AHI i was almost solely a bomber pilot........

Originally posted by Blooz

Oh, by the way. Bombers are alot tougher to knock down for us too. It works both ways.

 

Bombers are still easy to down if you come in from angles, but because of the useless guns now, most people come dead 6, which doesnt really allow you to hit stuff easy.... Coming down, or up on Bombers wings will kill them fast, not to mention the HO attack, BUT since its so easy to fly behind bombers now, everyone does.

right now, i fly both bombers and fighters probably 50/50 of my time, bombers are TOO easy/hard too kill/defend now, and thats coming from BOTH sides of the "fence"

Originally posted by Blooz

In real life youd have a man at each gun station defending the tails of a formation. They would also have an escort of fighters. Gee, I wonder why? Isn't a zillion .50 cals enough to defend themselves? I guess not.

 

read some stuff mate. German fighters DID NOT come in dead 6 on bombers after a couple of months of fighting because they KNEW it was going to kill them. The fighters came in from HO position, or side slashing attacks. This is why we needed allied fighters up, because these sort of attacks was very hard to defend against. coming right up the back of a bomber was a sure easy way to end your war.........

Originally posted by Blooz

You bomber guys got to stop flying alone. It's worse when you try to be gunner and pilot too.

Work as a team. Get together and stay alive. As long as you guys play the lone wolf, you'll be shot down every time with little effort.

im guessing your a rook? Both the other sides never really have the numbers to throw into big missions........oh and how is it going to help if you have more bombers up? your guns still dont work

[Alpo]

Originally posted by hitech
Nothing has changed in the way convergance works on bombers. But I know we must have a big conspericy going on.

  Ok... no one used the word conspiracy from my group and I do appreciate you responding to the boards as often as you have been as of late.

I understand that the hit model has changed as I did some testing on the convergence of the bomber guns (Alpo's testing ) and I'm in total agreement that convergence did not change.  

Originally posted by hitech

All that has changed is the hit detection, just like in fighters.

... and the 1200 yard limitation on the .50 cals.  Note:  I'm not saying that's inaccurate... it's just different.  Add to that the change in icon readout, gunning at distance became more difficult.  No problem, no complaints, I hated getting that golden .50 in the radiator at 1200-1400 yds like the rest of you.

However, (there's always a however ), I've seen just as Overlag has, that in a fighter, there seems to be a "safer" zone.  Note that I'm not calling it SAFE, it's just that it seems like you don't catch as much lead at under 600 yards.

I consider myself a fair shot in a buff and I've seen the fighters zoom up into the less than 600 yard zone and only be able to register a couple of pings.  It's not until I start moving the gun sight all around the fighter do I see more hit sprites... if I survive long enough.

Originally posted by hitech

There is always a possiblity of a bug, but in this case it sounds more like you are just missing.

Fair enough, but is there any way to test this from our end?    Anything done in the training or dueling arena will be largely subjective in nature without some measure of hit count.  One random thought... could the offline target be modified to perhaps to incorporate a silhouette of a Spitfire (or perhaps an La7 ) so we can see where rounds would be landing on an actual plane?

[Overlag]

Originally posted by hitech
Nothing has changed in the way convergance works on bombers. But I know we must have a big conspericy going on.

All that has changed is the hit detection, just like in fighters.

There is always a possiblity of a bug, but in this case it sounds more like you are just missing.


HiTech

hitech, since the guns are all but useless over 1k now how about allowing the bombers to converge under 1k?

[scott123]

The gunnery is fine,I have flown both bombers and fighters,and have had succes and faliure,as both.Somtimes I hit easily, others I struggle,in both.

 Lets not forget that flying unescorted bombers was suicidal,for both the British and the Germans,who both switched to night ops,for unescorted missions,the Americans also suffered heavily in 1943,even with escorts,the 8th airforce suffered appalling aircrew losses,which would not be acceptable by todays standards.

 You honestly think you can fly to your target,bomb it,shoot down the defending fighters with your Turret guns, then return home.

[Overlag]

Originally posted by scott123
The gunnery is fine,I have flown both bombers and fighters,and have had succes and faliure,as both.Somtimes I hit easily, others I struggle,in both.

 Lets not forget that flying unescorted bombers was suicidal,for both the British and the Germans,who both switched to night ops,for unescorted missions,the Americans also suffered heavily in 1943,even with escorts,the 8th airforce suffered appalling aircrew losses,which would not be acceptable by todays standards.

 You honestly think you can fly to your target,bomb it,shoot down the defending fighters with your Turret guns, then return home.

well we lost night because of whining furballers so what else are we suppose to do

most fighter pilots dont want to escort bombers....

[Alpo]

Originally posted by scott123

 Lets not forget that flying unescorted bombers was suicidal,for both the British and the Germans,who both switched to night ops,for unescorted missions,the Americans also suffered heavily in 1943,even with escorts,the 8th airforce suffered appalling aircrew losses,which would not be acceptable by todays standards.
 

Let's not forget that the issue here is a question of why can a single fighter SOMETIMES sit at d200-d600 and plink away while it's almost impossible to get a hit sprite.  

I'm not saying it's everytime... but it's a lot more common.  If you want to quote history, a buff is now better off opening up d1000+ than at d400, does that make sense?

[hitech]

hitech, since the guns are all but useless over 1k now how about allowing the bombers to converge under 1k?

Was thinking of this, just before I read your post. Will change it to 500 yards for next patch.

Alpo: The conspericy was in this statment.

Just another example of gameplay being changed towards the furballers/fighters at the expense of other peoples enjoyment

He implies that we have an intent to change toward furballers. Hence a conspericy to destroy what he considers fun.

HiTech

[Overlag]

Originally posted by hitech
Was thinking of this, just before I read your post. Will change it to 500 yards for next patch.

HiTech

thanks!

600 will make me feel better

[Alpo]

Originally posted by hitech
Was thinking of this, just before I read your post. Will change it to 500 yards for next patch.

Alpo: The conspericy was in this statment.

 

He implies that we have an intent to change toward furballers. Hence a conspericy to destroy what he considers fun.

HiTech

Ahhh... I see that now.  I was thinking you were talking about Zooty  The patch you discuss will be an interesting change!  

I don't suppose there is anyway to tie the actual convergence setting in the hanger to where the formation guns converge instead of a hard coded distance?    Hey, a guy can ask

[Frstrm]

While your at it, add bounce to the MG's...

I get tired of getting killed by the Bomber's laser guns.

Frstrm

[Kev367th]

Conspiracy in my statement !!!!
Was only voiceing my own opinion on the way I believe things have been going. Nothing conspiratorial in that.
A conspiracy requires two or more people to carry out a deed with the intent to cover it up. I never accused you of that. In fact you have always been quite open regarding game changes.