Author Topic: boroda  (Read 2421 times)

Offline Dago

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boroda
« Reply #60 on: August 12, 2004, 04:38:23 PM »
Yawn, did someone say something?
"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, chocolate in one hand, martini in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming "WOO HOO what a ride!"

Offline Thrawn

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boroda
« Reply #61 on: August 12, 2004, 09:15:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Dago
Thrawn, you obviously don't understand the word "relevant" as it applies to context.  Let me supplement your lack of comprehension.



I certainly do understand how relevantcy applies to context.  For example, you are trying to change the context of the decussion regarding Iraq and UN resolutions.  In you break down of the descussion, you totally ignore the post by Broda that precipitated it.

"UN resolutions didn't give any conditions that could allow any military action against Iraq. Any use of force had to be approved by Security Counsil or General Assembly."


There is your relevancy.  :rolleyes:

Offline Boroda

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boroda
« Reply #62 on: August 13, 2004, 10:39:39 AM »
Thrawn, it's always interesting to watch righteous people who have faith in something.

One of the slogans from Soviet times: "Doctrine of Marx is almighty because it's true" (V.I. Lenin). Beautiful, isn't it? ;)

Dago has been told that US invaded Iraq because it "violated UN resolutions", and it's the ultimate truth that can't be doubted. Look, the list is published on a White House web site! Logics and common sence are out of this conceptional space.

I already mentioned all the methods used in such a discussion above. They completely describes political methods used by some Western "democracies".

I want to thank Dago for not using a "you are a fool yourself" as the last argument. I expected him to start blaming Russians for a war in Chechnya. (Every civilized person knows that evil Russians opress gentle and noble Chechen freedom fighters) <- sarcasm here.

It scares me that a citizen of the "world's most democratic country" can be so blind and deliberately avoid common sence. If his opinion is so easily manipulated - then what decisions can he make at the elections?... :rolleyes:

Offline GreenCloud

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boroda
« Reply #63 on: August 13, 2004, 01:17:03 PM »
do i understand this right?..

Borada..you beleive Saddma Hussien was a kind and Gentle man who means no harm to anyone?..And he was not a threat to the world?

Offline Glas

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boroda
« Reply #64 on: August 13, 2004, 01:23:21 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by GreenCloud
do i understand this right?..

Borada..you beleive Saddma Hussien was a kind and Gentle man who means no harm to anyone?..And he was not a threat to the world?


At no point anywhere did he say this.  Are you dyslexic or something?

Edit:  I believe he did mention that at the point of the invasion, Hussein was of no threat to the USA.

Offline straffo

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boroda
« Reply #65 on: August 13, 2004, 05:17:41 PM »
wtg Boroda :)

Only the uninformed try to discuss logic with someone from Russia ;)




And btw may your shrecked Minsk chicken rot or burn in hell :p

Offline Dago

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boroda
« Reply #66 on: August 13, 2004, 11:33:54 PM »
Quote
Only the uninformed try to discuss logic with someone from Russia  


I agree with you Straffo, I am now informed that trying to discuss logic with a Russian is hopeless.

dago
« Last Edit: August 14, 2004, 12:37:31 AM by Dago »
"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, chocolate in one hand, martini in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming "WOO HOO what a ride!"

Offline Thrawn

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boroda
« Reply #67 on: August 14, 2004, 01:54:46 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Dago
I agree with you Straffo, I am now informed that trying to discuss logic with a Russian is hopeless.

dago



Cripes dago, you should be one of the last people to chastise someone for thier critical thought processes.  :rolleyes:

Offline babek-

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boroda
« Reply #68 on: August 14, 2004, 04:27:05 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Dago

The people are now enjoying the rebirth of freedom, will be participating in elections for representation, the women no longer have to wear complete coverings, the children are returning to school, and medical care is becoming available again to the citizens.   The soccer fields are no longer used as killing fields.

A national Army has been established, trained and equipped.



I dont know what country you are speaking about - but the situation in Afghanistan is not like you described.

1. Rebirth of Freedom ?
Even in Kabul - the capital city of the puppet Karsai, the women wear the Burkha.  If Karsai dares to leave the city without his foreign body guards the people would hang him.

Afghanistan is devided in the lands of the warlords and clans and Karsai has no power in these regions.

In NE the usbekian war-criminal "General" Dostum has his terror-regime. Very much like Saddam during the time of Iran-Iraq-War he is supported by the USA.

In the SE the pashtuni tribes - formerly also called Taliban - are in full power, demanding the orthodox interpretation of the Sharia. No woman there can dare to go out without the Burkha and no girl is visiting a school in these regions.

In the West - especially in the province of Herat and the city itself an iranian puppet is ruling. There indeed the situation has changed - the people there have the more liberal iranian definition of Islam - so the women dont have to wear the burkha but "only" the chador and girls and women are allowed to visit schools/universities.
But islamic-liberal iranian definitions are far away from the definition of liberalism or freedom of western standard.

2. Elections ?
On the one hand no one cares who is prime minister of Afghanistan, because this person is not more than a major of Kabul and only so long as foreign troops protect him.
The people know that an election is coming, because all these political rivals are now fighting more bitterly against each other. Dostum for example is responsible for the assassination of tweo ministers of the Karsai regime.

3. Women no have to wear complete coverings ?
They have.
Even when western reports show pictures from Kabul there are women in the blue burkha when the "life in the city" is shown.
Iranian  clerics have condemned the burkha which is a real torture to wear. It not only completely covers the body of the woman but also the face and the material it is made off makes it a hell to wear it in the hot climate.

So - what do you think why we still see these torture clothing when there are reports of Kabul - the city with the highest presence of foreign troops in Afghanistan.

What do you think is going on in all the small villages - especially in the Southeast where the Pashtuni tribes rule ?


4. Children in school ?
Maybe in Kabul, maybe in Herat and Dostums territory. But nothing essential has been changed in the old traditional territories of those tribes which formed the Talibans.

5. Medical Care ?
The major "medicine" of Afghanistan is heroine. 75% of the world production is coming now from this country. Iran is trying to stop the drug-smuggling by building walls to the afghan order - a senseless action whcih will not work because of the lenght and the form of the territory.
But it shows how the situation has got bad in Afghanistan where every rebel part, warlord and tribe is buying its weapons by producing drugs which finally also reach the western nations and kill the people who use them here.


6. National Army ?
This is the most ridiculous point.
There was along report in german TV about this new "national afghan army" which was trained by US-officers.
After a short training many of these so called "soldiers" are deserting and return to their tribes.
Many were sent by their warlord to the training because they hoped that their people would get a good military training and then they simply returned.

They ever have the uniforms and weapons which were given to them - only the rank and national insignias were removed.

There is no national feeling - no loyality for the ruler of Kabul.
The afghans - after decades of internal wars - are loyal to their tribes and clans.


No - I can not see any effective change in Afghanistan.

They still have large regions where the rules of the Taliban are performed, where women MUST wear the Burkha, are refused to go to school and where the most primitive forms of shariarules are used.

The central government would be wiped out if foreign troops leave the country.

And all these warlords refuse to give up their power. Even after many of them were made to ministers by Karsai they continued the fighting and many ministers of Karsai died in the last years by assassinations ordered by some of their minister-collegues.

Offline Dago

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boroda
« Reply #69 on: August 14, 2004, 11:37:38 PM »
I am curious Babek, when did you last travel the length and breadth of Afghanistan to speak expertly on it's current conditions?

dago
"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, chocolate in one hand, martini in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming "WOO HOO what a ride!"

Offline straffo

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boroda
« Reply #70 on: August 15, 2004, 05:33:06 AM »
To know what Babek you just need to have more than one news source and make a compilation.

Nothing difficult ,some site make the job for you I'll post the links when I'll be back at home.
« Last Edit: August 15, 2004, 05:35:59 AM by straffo »

Offline Dago

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boroda
« Reply #71 on: August 15, 2004, 08:53:15 AM »
Ah Straffo, thanks for proving my point.

Kind of a "my news source knows more than your news source".    Makes the basic assumption that someones choice of news sources is superior to somene elses.  Ignores the fact that almost every news outlet is subject to bias in reporting.

Somehow, I wouldn't put any more faith in a German or French news source than I would an American source.

But don't let that stop you in your "holier than thou" quest.


dago
"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, chocolate in one hand, martini in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming "WOO HOO what a ride!"

Offline anonymous

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boroda
« Reply #72 on: August 15, 2004, 09:25:29 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by babek-
I dont know what country you are speaking about - but the situation in Afghanistan is not like you described.

1. Rebirth of Freedom ?
Even in Kabul - the capital city of the puppet Karsai, the women wear the Burkha.  If Karsai dares to leave the city without his foreign body guards the people would hang him.

Afghanistan is devided in the lands of the warlords and clans and Karsai has no power in these regions.

In NE the usbekian war-criminal "General" Dostum has his terror-regime. Very much like Saddam during the time of Iran-Iraq-War he is supported by the USA.

In the SE the pashtuni tribes - formerly also called Taliban - are in full power, demanding the orthodox interpretation of the Sharia. No woman there can dare to go out without the Burkha and no girl is visiting a school in these regions.

In the West - especially in the province of Herat and the city itself an iranian puppet is ruling. There indeed the situation has changed - the people there have the more liberal iranian definition of Islam - so the women dont have to wear the burkha but "only" the chador and girls and women are allowed to visit schools/universities.
But islamic-liberal iranian definitions are far away from the definition of liberalism or freedom of western standard.

2. Elections ?
On the one hand no one cares who is prime minister of Afghanistan, because this person is not more than a major of Kabul and only so long as foreign troops protect him.
The people know that an election is coming, because all these political rivals are now fighting more bitterly against each other. Dostum for example is responsible for the assassination of tweo ministers of the Karsai regime.

3. Women no have to wear complete coverings ?
They have.
Even when western reports show pictures from Kabul there are women in the blue burkha when the "life in the city" is shown.
Iranian  clerics have condemned the burkha which is a real torture to wear. It not only completely covers the body of the woman but also the face and the material it is made off makes it a hell to wear it in the hot climate.

So - what do you think why we still see these torture clothing when there are reports of Kabul - the city with the highest presence of foreign troops in Afghanistan.

What do you think is going on in all the small villages - especially in the Southeast where the Pashtuni tribes rule ?


4. Children in school ?
Maybe in Kabul, maybe in Herat and Dostums territory. But nothing essential has been changed in the old traditional territories of those tribes which formed the Talibans.

5. Medical Care ?
The major "medicine" of Afghanistan is heroine. 75% of the world production is coming now from this country. Iran is trying to stop the drug-smuggling by building walls to the afghan order - a senseless action whcih will not work because of the lenght and the form of the territory.
But it shows how the situation has got bad in Afghanistan where every rebel part, warlord and tribe is buying its weapons by producing drugs which finally also reach the western nations and kill the people who use them here.


6. National Army ?
This is the most ridiculous point.
There was along report in german TV about this new "national afghan army" which was trained by US-officers.
After a short training many of these so called "soldiers" are deserting and return to their tribes.
Many were sent by their warlord to the training because they hoped that their people would get a good military training and then they simply returned.

They ever have the uniforms and weapons which were given to them - only the rank and national insignias were removed.

There is no national feeling - no loyality for the ruler of Kabul.
The afghans - after decades of internal wars - are loyal to their tribes and clans.


No - I can not see any effective change in Afghanistan.

They still have large regions where the rules of the Taliban are performed, where women MUST wear the Burkha, are refused to go to school and where the most primitive forms of shariarules are used.

The central government would be wiped out if foreign troops leave the country.

And all these warlords refuse to give up their power. Even after many of them were made to ministers by Karsai they continued the fighting and many ministers of Karsai died in the last years by assassinations ordered by some of their minister-collegues.


babek last time i was there was a little less than two years ago. your description doesnt match up with what i saw or dealt with. who are your sources?

Offline mora

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boroda
« Reply #73 on: August 15, 2004, 09:43:00 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Dago
Ah Straffo, thanks for proving my point.

Kind of a "my news source knows more than your news source".    Makes the basic assumption that someones choice of news sources is superior to somene elses.  Ignores the fact that almost every news outlet is subject to bias in reporting.

Somehow, I wouldn't put any more faith in a German or French news source than I would an American source.

But don't let that stop you in your "holier than thou" quest.


dago


What would they possibly gain by presenting false information? They never opposed Afganistan operations, and infact were involved themself.

Offline Dago

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boroda
« Reply #74 on: August 15, 2004, 11:04:54 AM »
Quote
What would they possibly gain by presenting false information? They never opposed Afganistan operations, and infact were involved themself.


It all comes from babeks babble, and me asking where he gets his info.   Straffo jumps in and says the guy reads news reports.   I guess Straffo feels babek is incapable of replying for himself.  My statement basically says that if babek is just regurgitating what he read in a news report, why would his info be any differant than mine?  You offered nothing in your post to answer any questions or to prove anything.

dago
"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, chocolate in one hand, martini in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming "WOO HOO what a ride!"