Author Topic: boroda  (Read 2420 times)

Offline Boroda

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boroda
« Reply #75 on: August 16, 2004, 01:36:41 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by anonymous
babek last time i was there was a little less than two years ago. your description doesnt match up with what i saw or dealt with. who are your sources?


Anonymous, as far as I understood - you were there training some medical personell? I may be mistaken, because I didn't understand most of the abbrievations in your post on a first page :(

I think Babek explained his sources of information on Central-Asian events in another thread.

OTOH - what we see on TV looks sometimes exaclty as Babek described, and sometimes they just show us happy Afghani people who all speak Russian and tell the stories about the rebuilding etc., but they all are stationed in Kabul or Bagram. Just like in the 80s when all we saw about that war was Soviet soldiers helping to build schools and hospitals.

Estel called me this morning, said that he's sitting at the river bank at the campfire... It will be interesting what his coments on this thread will sound like. As I said - he was on Tajik-Afghan border around 1997.

This thread looks like a good collection of information and opinions from different sides.

Offline anonymous

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boroda
« Reply #76 on: August 16, 2004, 04:55:35 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Boroda
Anonymous, as far as I understood - you were there training some medical personell? I may be mistaken, because I didn't understand most of the abbrievations in your post on a first page :(

I think Babek explained his sources of information on Central-Asian events in another thread.

OTOH - what we see on TV looks sometimes exaclty as Babek described, and sometimes they just show us happy Afghani people who all speak Russian and tell the stories about the rebuilding etc., but they all are stationed in Kabul or Bagram. Just like in the 80s when all we saw about that war was Soviet soldiers helping to build schools and hospitals.

Estel called me this morning, said that he's sitting at the river bank at the campfire... It will be interesting what his coments on this thread will sound like. As I said - he was on Tajik-Afghan border around 1997.

This thread looks like a good collection of information and opinions from different sides.


i was member of special operations unit. i have lots of friends that were there with me who are now working with govt of afghanistan in various capacities. i chat with the guys all the time. babek right about tribal problems but they not nearly as severe as he thinks. and many tribe and warlord friendly to west because they knew how much west help them against soviets. no matter what bs some spread they know where the guns bullets food and medicine came from. these warlord help us after 9/11 when no gurantee that things would turn out like they did. they had guys get tortured to death by al qaeda trying to find out where we were or where they hide comms gear we give them and they didnt say a peep. if you know afghan culture that means a great deal. babek has some right some wrong. president of afhganistan doesnt have foreign bodyguard. he has western special operations that aid in his protection but the "muscle" is afghani soldiers of new army who have bought into idea of afghanistan with real govt. this whole discussion kind of pointless tho. its going to be a couple of years before anyone can say for certain one way or other. i hope it works out for them and if it doesnt i hope it doesnt go bad again like it did before so some foreign soldier has to go in and slap some heads.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2004, 05:12:49 PM by anonymous »

Offline babek-

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boroda
« Reply #77 on: August 16, 2004, 06:17:29 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by anonymous
babek last time i was there was a little less than two years ago. your description doesnt match up with what i saw or dealt with. who are your sources?


Have you been in west afghanistan - especially in Herat ?

One of my cousins is still now there, working for an iranian help organisiation.

And I believe him when he tells me that the ruler of Herat and Herat province, Ismail Khan, has build a system like in Iran shortly after the Khomeini revolution. At least the women dont have to wear the Burkha but they MUST wear the shador or they are put in jail.

If I am right the central afghan government allowed all afghan women to decide for themself if they wear a shador, a burkha or normal western clothing.

Just a small example how "much" have changed in Afghanistan and how much influence Karsai has in "his" provinces.

And the situation in Herat is - compared with the SE of Afghanistan - relativly good. They get much help from Iran, because this province has a long history with Iran. Iran was an ally of the western afghan warlords during the Taliban wars - long before 9/11. Herat was lost to the Taliban and hundredthousands afghans fled to east Iran where they lived in refugee camps for years. After the fall of the Taliban they returned - many of them in the iranian camps to the province and city of Herat.
And Iran continues to help them by providing humanitarian aid.

My cousin told me that there are soldiers from the central government of Kabul in Herat, but they have no authority or power, while Ismail Khan and his clan-troops rules the city and the province like a king some centuries ago.

If you have been in the NE-part of Afghanistan then you are in one point right: The so called General Dostum is ruling his part of the country like Saddam -  the women have more rights than in rest Afghanistan but he has built a terrorregime and is trying to get more and more power from Kabul.

But if you have really such reliable sources then you wont be able to deny that especially in the pashtuni clan territory of SE-afghanistan the rights for the women have not been changed effectivly. They still have wear the burkha.

The examples of the treatment of the women show the dicrepance between the official liberal declarations of the central government and the reality in the provinces.

Not Karsai - the official president of Afghanistan -  what is law and what not.

But the clanleaders and warlords.

The powerful of them like Khan or Dostum are ruling Afghanistan today and also all these minor clanleaders and warlords. And that brings all the problems for afghanistan: There is no real powerful central government.
 
Btw - my cousin is not a fanatic man who hates americans and wishes that Afghanistan remain a civil war country.

He had studied in London, became a M.D., didnt take the chance to work and become rich in Europe but returned to Iran and worked in refugee camps - first in one where iraqui kurds lived who escaped to Iran then he transferred to the east iranian border and he worked in one of the afghan refugee camps where many afghans fled to Iran from Taliban terror years before 9/11.

So I think he is a good source - especially when he tells me that he is always glad when he can leave Herat and come to Teheran in his holidays, because there are so many harsh islamic laws in Herat and he has to be very careful not to be make a mistake there.

He said that Herat is very much like Iran was during the first phase of islamic khomeini revolution.

Fanatics are patrolling and acting when they think that islamic law (by their definition) has been broken.

And the central government has no real power - although it has sent official troops to Herat.

So I think that this the reality - and not the dreams of Karsai in Kabul.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2004, 06:21:37 PM by babek- »

Offline straffo

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boroda
« Reply #78 on: August 17, 2004, 12:09:18 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Dago
Ah Straffo, thanks for proving my point.

Kind of a "my news source knows more than your news source".    Makes the basic assumption that someones choice of news sources is superior to somene elses.  Ignores the fact that almost every news outlet is subject to bias in reporting.

Somehow, I wouldn't put any more faith in a German or French news source than I would an American source.

But don't let that stop you in your "holier than thou" quest.


dago


I don't think I'm the one "making the basic assumption".

You're right for one :  I'm the one "making the basic assumption" that you have the cognitive ressources of an Oyster.

Offline Dago

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boroda
« Reply #79 on: August 17, 2004, 02:01:21 PM »
Call me any names you want, but don't call me a Frenchman.  I bathe regularly.

dago
"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, chocolate in one hand, martini in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming "WOO HOO what a ride!"