Author Topic: Interesting report on a G-14  (Read 1966 times)

Offline VO101_Isegrim

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Interesting report on a G-14
« Reply #15 on: August 10, 2004, 07:42:32 PM »
What`s the news about that...? This report is on the Lair for ages... every brand new engine needs to be run first on low power settings, so that the parts can 'fit' to each other. Car, airplanes, all go the same way.

In fact, there`s one part in Tobak`s book about 'putting in hours' into the new G-10s they received. Somehow they done it. ;)

As for the wooden parts in the cocpit, yep, they were in increasing use in 1944, the tail unit was made of wood (that ensured inproved aerodynamics, but was some 2-10kg heavier), and in the cocpit, trimwheels, the bomb fuse panel, sometimes the cocpit floor and the pilot seat was made of wood reducing the  pressure on the metalworking shops and allowing them to produce more of the more important parts. Wood or metal, in these things it didn`t make a difference in functionality.

It`s just another stupid flamebait thread Milo regularly use to post as he can`t receive any attention via a normal conversation.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2004, 08:12:16 PM by VO101_Isegrim »

Online MiloMorai

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Interesting report on a G-14
« Reply #16 on: August 10, 2004, 08:58:01 PM »
LOL.

It is rather OBVIOUS that a new engine needs a break-in time. Anyone with any resemblance of intelligence knows this. What is mundane is the Luftluvers stating the obvious, repeatably.

Phookat I did not know what the times were. There was other info that was new for me and thought some others might like to read the report who did not know of it. But, instead of making any worthwhile contributions, the Luftluvers, like Barbi and Scholzi, go flaming. But what else does one expect from them.:rolleyes:

Barbi, 2 posters enjoyed the link.:) And, Barbi, I would not mention flame bait posts. Your Spit 2100mi. range post is a prime example. When have you had a civilized conversation Barbi? They always turn into flame fests because of your German is UBER fanatism, with you insulting and demeaning those who do not agree with you.

The 190 had wooden parts, as was the cockpit floor of the P-51.

As to your comment, re Tobak. I would not want to be in a German a/c before that 10hr period ended during the last 12-16 months of WW2. To give you an example, I blew and engine and had to put in an engine that was not fully broken in. Seized during the race. Good thing I was not at 1000m.:)


So who has the break in times for other aero engines? WELL???

Offline Wotan

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Interesting report on a G-14
« Reply #17 on: August 10, 2004, 11:49:43 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Fruda
This is somewhat off-topic, but...

Is the G-14 better than the G-10?


A G-14 is a G-6 + MW-50.

Its not as fast as the G-10. The G-10 has a DB605D eng. The G-14 has a DB605AM.

The non-AS G-14 and G-10 have different superchargers.

The G-14 in FB/AEP is most fun plane ever to fly in any game ever.

AH needs one desperately. :p

Offline Kweassa

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Interesting report on a G-14
« Reply #18 on: August 11, 2004, 01:02:22 AM »
To add to Wotan, Germany initiated two projects in 1944, which was to 1) develop a successor to the G model 109, and 2) bring up production G model performance to the standards of the new 109.

 The first was to become the Kurfurst, and the second was to become the G-10. Except the developments for the Kurfurst lagged behind schedule, so the standardization process of the G models came first, and factory built G-6s were now formally equipped with the DB605A with MW50 systems installed, plus some minor field modifications integrated into the factory model. This improved 'makeshift' G-6 became the G-14.

Offline Charge

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Interesting report on a G-14
« Reply #19 on: August 11, 2004, 01:39:21 AM »
I find strange the alledged lack of armour and the armourless fuel tank?

What was the standard armour on these machines after all? There is the layered thick duraluminum bulkhead between pilot and fuel tank but despite that?

AFAIK the fuel tank had a rubber sack inside the aluminum cover so when the fuel was drained there was not dangerous space left for air which would have made a single hit of incendiary lethal. So those fuel tanks were not usually armoured at all but considered as armour themselves. Can anyone confirm?

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Offline GScholz

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Interesting report on a G-14
« Reply #20 on: August 11, 2004, 02:31:55 AM »
IIRC from the last time that report was posted that particular G-14 was a recon version. The fighter version has a self-sealing fuel tank, Galland armor and windshield armor.
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Online MiloMorai

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Interesting report on a G-14
« Reply #21 on: August 11, 2004, 06:13:03 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by GScholz
IIRC from the last time that report was posted that particular G-14 was a recon version. The fighter version has a self-sealing fuel tank, Galland armor and windshield armor.


If it was a recon version, why no mention of cameras? It could have been on a recon type mission. The G-8 (recon type) also had the FuG16 replaced by the FuG17 but this a/c has the FuG16. Of the known NAG units (1,2,3,4,14) that flew G-14s, it seems none had bases in the West at the time. (http://www.ww2.dk/) Why the conclusion that it was a recon G-14?

The canopy was not found for this G-14 but windshield armour is mentioned - G-14s had the Erla hood, Galland armor.


Where in France is Fontenay-le-Poesnel?

Offline VO101_Isegrim

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Interesting report on a G-14
« Reply #22 on: August 11, 2004, 09:00:37 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Charge
I find strange the alledged lack of armour and the armourless fuel tank?
 


I think I have a very simple explanation for this, which I already told to George who supplied this report and he liked the explanation quite a bit.

If you look at the serial no. of this G-14, you will notice it`s from the same 41x xxx series block as the G-6/U2 the Brits also caputured. Now the /u2 suffix means it`s a factory mod for GM-1 carrying, ie. it was intended as a special high alt variant. Quite often those ones were lightened quite a bit, removing the heavier s-s tank and putting a light alloy fuel tank in it`s place. Not sure about, but perhaps the rear armor plates were removed as well. Since these fighters were supposed to do task like intercepting high flying bombers, or unarmed FRs, the armor wasn`t a neccesity, just a burden. So what I think this early G-14 was a conversion from an older G-6/U2, which was easy as those already had the piping, and an easily convertable rear tank for the MW50. The 'lightened' tank and removed? armor was kept, probably. Of course newly built G-14s would have a normal level of armor, as described below.


Quote

What was the standard armour on these machines after all? There is the layered thick duraluminum bulkhead between pilot and fuel tank but despite that?
[/B]


If you mean the standard fighter G-14, not these hybrid expceptions, it was 90mm built-in armor glass on the windshield, a 60mm armored glass in the headrest enclosed in a 10mm steel frame, a 8mm back armor plate behind the dural/wood pilot seat, and 4mm armor seat starting under the butt-level of the pilot reaching until the cocpit floor.

The 25mm multi-layer dural plate that was further behind and protecting the fuel tank (and the pilot as well of course) was removed on the MW50 carrying 109s, to make space for the 115 liter MW tank. However, I guess the MW tank itself provided a considerable level of protection, especially vs. incendinary rounds, being quite large in itself, and filled with water mixture which would slow down bullets just like fuel tanks, a bit better in fact, since water was more dense. I wonder how it related to the 25mm layer itself in protection value(which, as per reports, could provide complete immunity for the fuel tank itself from .303 fire, and a rather safe protection to the pilot from .50cal AP, as it had to pass the bulkhead, the fuel tank itself, the pilot`s 8mm armor, the pilot seat, plus whatever got in the way in the fusalage itself). .

So I think we can say a 109 pilot was protected against enemy shots well above the avarage fighter protection level.

Quote

AFAIK the fuel tank had a rubber sack inside the aluminum cover so when the fuel was drained there was not dangerous space left for air which would have made a single hit of incendiary lethal. So those fuel tanks were not usually armoured at all but considered as armour themselves. Can anyone confirm?
[/B]


IIRC the 109`s self sealing tank was a large piece of rubber, and was kept from bulging out by a plywood filling between it and fuselage. Putting metal near the fuel tank is generally a bad idea, `cos even richocheting hits from metal can create sparks and ignite fuel fumes..

Offline Pongo

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Interesting report on a G-14
« Reply #23 on: August 11, 2004, 10:17:31 AM »
Many re-engined 109s would have only been ferrying from Holland. There was a huge rebuild factory there.

Offline Fruda

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Interesting report on a G-14
« Reply #24 on: August 11, 2004, 01:27:25 PM »
So, the G-14 is a superior G6, that out-performs the G2, or am I wrong?

Offline leitwolf

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Interesting report on a G-14
« Reply #25 on: August 11, 2004, 02:10:00 PM »
you're right :)
veni, vidi, vulchi.

Offline Fruda

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Interesting report on a G-14
« Reply #26 on: August 11, 2004, 05:35:56 PM »
Then, damnit, we need it too!

Offline VO101_Isegrim

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Interesting report on a G-14
« Reply #27 on: August 12, 2004, 04:48:32 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Fruda
So, the G-14 is a superior G6, that out-performs the G2, or am I wrong?


G-14 is basically a G-6 with MW50 boost, and 1800 HP instead of 1475. The result is much improved low/medium altitude performance (530->569km/h on the deck).

In fact, the G-14 is equal, if not better than the G-10 on the deck, up to about 5000m, where the G-10`s better supercharger come into play.

Offline GScholz

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Interesting report on a G-14
« Reply #28 on: August 13, 2004, 09:24:41 AM »
Recon does not mean photography. Reconnaissance is a term that encompasses a lot of military roles. This G-14 was probably a recon fighter ... a scout. The LW frequently used scouts to identify the bomber streams as they entered German airspace, something radar alone could not do. Special lightened versions of the 109 were used, and this one looks like such a scout 109.
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Offline mora

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Interesting report on a G-14
« Reply #29 on: August 13, 2004, 10:15:49 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by MiloMorai
So who has the break in times for other aero engines? WELL???


Your ignorance is amazing. Why do you think the break in times would be any different?