What about the P61 Black Widow

[Fishu]

Ok, thats the deal.. allies can have their P-61 and LW gets their Ta-152 or He-162  

[Ripsnort]

Dolomite, cool pic, WTF is it????

------------------
Brian "Ripsnort" Nelson
-Rip1- VF-101 Grim Reapers (RET)
"There is no reason anyone would
want a computer in their home."
   Ken Olson, president, chairman and
founder of Digital Equipment Corp.,1977

[humble]

I remember reading about a duel right after WW2 ended between a pony and a blackwidow in Japan. The pilots were both reasonably skilled...I know the pony driver was a Ace from the Euro theater. Anyway the widow waxed him. Apparently both squads wagered there entire booze allotment for the month...ouch My recollection is that the pony driver completely underestimated the E retention of the widow in the vertical.

[Gorf]

  HUMBLE...THank you!!

[dolomite]

 

Originally posted by Ripsnort:
Dolomite, cool pic, WTF is it????

That, my friend, is the P-58 Chain Lightning!  

[ra]

<<And RA .. a QUIZ question for you.. what plane had the fastest role rate of any US fighter used in WWII..... GIVE UP??? P51.. NOT.. P38.. NOT...
                                F4U.. NOT.. and the correct answer IS>>>>>> P47!>>

Wrong, it was the P-63 Kingcobra, I doubt the P-47 was in the top 3. And the P-61 did have the lowest roll rate of any US fighter.

It sounds like you want an uber Boulton-Paul Defiant.                      

--ra--

[Minotaur]

Dolomite;

Do you mind posting that pic on a favorite thread of mine?   Under "Aircraft and Vehicles", the thread is labled "Der Gabelschwanz Teufel".

I found one link that I would like to post up their as well.  However, it only describes the plane as experimental and gives no combat records.

Thanks in advance!  

Mino

[juzz]

Guess what the tightest turning plane in the RAF inventory was? Spitfire? Hurricane? Nope, it was none other than the Fairey Swordfish.

This "Stringbag" 2-man biplane could sink battleships, so I'm sure it would have no trouble killing any fighters that dare deride it's puny guns and anaemic horsepower.

 

And bellybutton for Mossie,, well it is a good ground pounder and I love the plane, the point about the P61 was that it was a very effective Ground pounder, it was avery versitale plane.

Yeah that's why the P-61, and NOT the De Havilland Mosquito is widely refered to as the most useful aircraft to serve with the Allies during WW2.

The British asked the US for a nightfighter, and Northrop went and built the P-61. Then when the RAF tested one they found(shock! horror!) that the Mosquito was better, and didn't order any.

[dolomite]

Mino-

Done!  

[Gorf]

RA..
ONCE again you have proven that you have flunked WWII History.  I believe I said the P47 had the fastest role rate of the WWII US airplanes that saw action in WWII,  THE P47M or N, cant rember but will look it up, had the FASTEST..(please go read) role rate of any US aircraft that "SAW ACTION in WWII" for the US.. THE KINGCOBRA NEVER..repeat NEVER saw action with the US in WWII.  ONLY the Russians, and HOW you may I now this.. A: I read a lot of books and B: Wife is Russian and her Great Grandpa FLEW them for RUSSIA. Not sure it was during or at the end of WWII she could not remeber.

SO>> to end this contraversy >> you for some reason you classify the P61 a piece of JUNK I class it as a FLyin WONDER and a Plane that has been neglected and one that deservse recognition for its accomplishments.  Everbody has there view on what plane is best and I got a feeling that if this thread keeps going certain words may fly out and HITECH  err Pryo may send us a nasty gram.

SO, Lets let it go and hit off to the unfriendly skies and have FUN.

RA apologize for the rude comment in last posting and in this one. Very unfriendly of me.  Just very protective of the P61 and P47, I know my stuff on them and hate it when someone calls these planes JUNK etc.. with out any proof to back them up.

Good luck and God speed to you and all other sim pilots in the AH arena.

Gorf  

[Ripsnort]

JUZZ:
That story has a few details left out, first off, the RAF flew an A version that had the turret on top,  was a real dog.  Secondly, the US had given the RAF a version with an existing radar already used on front line fighter-bombers, the US refused to turn over the latest version of Dar they had on the US version of the P61, the RAF was alittle ticked since it was the Brits that gave the US DAR capability in the first place years before, the US just refined the exiting technology, but didn;t want to turn over their "refined" nose-radar to the brits in the P61.  It was more of a political decision rather than an aircraft performance decision.

My father-in-law was a mechanic on these Black Beauties, and is pretty imformed on their historical background.

------------------
Brian "Ripsnort" Nelson
-Rip1- VF-101 Grim Reapers (RET)
"There is no reason anyone would
want a computer in their home."
   Ken Olson, president, chairman and
founder of Digital Equipment Corp.,1977

[This message has been edited by Ripsnort (edited 01-19-2000).]

[Ripsnort]

More Info on the P61:

The only specially designed night fighter of WWII, a large but maneuvrable twin-engined, twin-boom aircraft. The allied
enjoyed almost total air superiority by the time the P-61 entered service, and the P-61 was mainly used as a night intruder and
attack aircraft. The nose housed a big and heavy centimetric radar set, made in the US; four machine guns were installed in a
remotely controlled turret on top of the fuselage (deleted on many P-61As) and four cannon were fitted in the fuselage belly. The
P-61 was surprisingly maneuverable for such a large aircraft, but too slow too make a really excellent fighter. There was also a
two-seat dayfighter development, the XP-61E, later converted into the XF-15 reconaissance aircraft. 706 built.

Type: P-61B-1
Function: nightfighter
Year: 1944 Crew: 3 Engines: 2 * 2250hp P&W R-2800-65
Wing Span: 20.11m Length: 15.11m Height: 4.47m Wing Area: 61.53m2
Empty Weight: 10637m Max.Weight: 16240m
Max. Speed: 589km/h Ceiling: Max. Range: 2175km
Armament: 4*g20mm (4*mg12.7mm) 4*725kg

------------------
Brian "Ripsnort" Nelson
-Rip1- VF-101 Grim Reapers (RET)
"There is no reason anyone would
want a computer in their home."
   Ken Olson, president, chairman and
founder of Digital Equipment Corp.,1977

[Gorf]

 
Ripsnort,

VERY COOL info, and I am very jealus of your father-inlaw working on the BLack beauties.

Gorf

[ra]

Gorf,

This will be my last posting on this thread too.

1) you didn't specify 'used by the US', I presumed everybody here knew that the P-63 only saw action with the USSR.  But it doesn't matter because no matter how you slice it the P-47 didn't have the fastest roll rate of any US fighter.  The P-51B and P-40E both rolled faster, and at higher speeds the P-38L and F4U did.  

The M model was just a D with a bigger engine, the N model had fuel tanks in the wings which I'm sure you realize would not improve roll rate.  

And the P-61 was in a class by itself with the lowest roll rate.

If you want to see your plane in action and you have a decent modem, go here:
 http://www.zenoswarbirdvideos.com/

--ra--

[Gorf]

RA,

Thanks for the last post and Zeno's Web site is theeee BEST.  SPeed at home does not a low me to have fun with it so I use the T1 at work.

And as a final post for me, on the role rate. The following mag/book manufactures have tidbits about this topic and throught their research they all have concluded on ROLE rates. The P47, later models, had THE fastest.

Osprey Publications, FLight Journal, Aviation History and Aeroplane all have done the review.

In FLight sims the P47 has never..never been modeled correctly as has the P38H. So that is why it seems that way.

Have a good day!

Gorf