What about the P61 Black Widow

[Gorf]

First of all AH is a blast and when I heard the B-26 was going to the next bomber I about fell of my chair.  The B26 is one of those neglected aircraft that Simulator companies neglect.  I have been flying it and love it.

Now on for the rest of the story, ONE fighter that has been pushed back and forgotton is the P61 Black Widow. The LARGEST Fighter used in WWII and a damm fast one(cruisiing speed around 295-300). NOW before you say anthing the first answer to pop out most peoples lips is...ITS A NIGHT FIGHTER.. no one does that for sims...  WELL, that is a half truth. Yes it was night fighter and it was designed for it BUT!! It also did DAY MISSIONS providing various roles of Fighter support and u GUESED it .. GROUND POUNDING!!.  This sucker could carry 4,000lbs of bombs and it did due ground support. I mean what could be better, A FIGHTER that carries 4,000lbs bombs, 4 20mm with 500 rounds a gun, 4 50s, and a WEP speed running levle at over 350mph.  The Germans had a nasty one two, think it was called a Horton OWL, never seen this one done either.  SO BRING on the P61 and lets go NUKE somebody.


Gorf
 

[Ripsnort]

GORF, I LOVE YOU MAAAAAAAAAAAN!!!!!!!

------------------
Brian "Ripsnort" Nelson
-Rip1- VF-101 Grim Reapers (RET)
"There is no reason anyone would
want a computer in their home."
   Ken Olson, president, chairman and
founder of Digital Equipment Corp.,1977

[Pongo]

If they could find a way to do the p61, ju88, mossie, he219, beaufighter, bf110
thing I would love it...

[Minotaur]

P-38 could carry 2x2k bombs.

Mino

[Gorf]

So the P38 could carry that much BUTTT.  The performace of the P61 did not fall to the floor like the P38.  Believe or not, testing shows(I need to find the article in Aviation History) the P61 had the tightest turning radius of any Army Aircorp fighter in WWII and it was twice the size.  

Gorf
 

PS I like the P38 histroically and in sims, just get tired of people preaching that the P38 is the ultimate fighter.  Give me a F7F Tigercat and I will outdive, out turn, out run and OUT carry anything the P38 could. No Offense.

PSS  Did ya know there was a variant fo the P38 that had 12.. let me say 12 50 cals on it.

 

[MarkVZ]

I absolutely love the idea of the P-61.  This is a TRUE fighter bomber {B26 is fast bomber, but doesn't last long in turning combat) and I would love to see it.  We can have a very nice plane that brand WB doesn't have, and bring a really cool plane into the sim.

------------------
Mark VanZwoll
33rd Strike Group

[ra]

I wish a sim would model the P-61 so everybody could see what a hunk of crap it is, and the rest of us could get on with our lives.


--ra--

[dolomite]

Nah, it would only serve to open the debate on whether it was properly modeled.  

As a fighter bomber it might be ok, but I wouldn't furball one.

[Minotaur]

Gorf;

I can see this plane excites you so take no regard toward my earlier comment.

The P-61 most have been much less well know, than the P-38.  In general not very well known or famous.  For the most part the only thing I have seen written about them was that they often had the role of a radar equiped night fighter.  

Trying to recall, I don't believe that I have ever even seen one even at an airshow.  Although I did see a F7 once.

Please, do tell which 38 had 12 .50's?  I would love to post a picture of it if I can find one.

P61
     
Sorry the best picture I could find for now..


One Related Site:http://www.dnaco.net/%7Eitac1/museum/aircraft/p61.html  

Scroll down some on this site: http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/1956/INDEXFIGHTER.HTML


F7
     
Way Cool!

Mino

[This message has been edited by Minotaur (edited 01-18-2000).]

[dolomite]

It was called the "Chain Lightning". Designated P-58, it was powered by two 2,100 hp Allison turbo-charged engines. Max speed was 436mph, take-off weight 39,200lbs. Armament listed in my book was four 37mm fixed forward firing cannon and four 0.5-in guns in two turrets. That is quite a punch!

Nothing, but nothing would pound ground like this!

[Gorf]

First of all for response to RA

  RA.. the P61 was one of the most advanced aircraft of its time(and the most expensive), the Horton Owl was the only other nightfighter that came somewhat close to its level of technology.  As for being a peace of CRAP, well ..if it was, then how come it is one of the MOST valuable aircraft in the restoration industry.  The USAF air museum received an offer 3 years ago for a private collector for 29 MILLION dollars to have. HE was turned down.

  NOW for response to Minotaur,  VERY COOL PICS..VERY COOL and THANKS for the links.  As for the P38 with 12 50s.. I will get back to you, I am serching through all my BOOKS. By the way, A very Very GOOD book on the P38 that I bought a couple weeks ago is as follows:
PRODUCTION LINE TO FRONTLINE: LOCKHEED P38 LIGHTNING  ISBN #185532749 X BY MICHAEL O'LEARY  HIGHLY recommend this one.

  And dolomite, THANKS for the INFO..VERY MUCH.

See you all in the AIR!!

Gorf  

[ra]

Gorf,

Regardless of how high-tech the Black Widow was, it was not particularly successful, obsolete by the time it reached combat units.
If some guy offered $29 million, he needs counseling.

The P-61 never lived up to billing, it was slower than hoped for, and had the worst roll rate of any US fighter, even with the high-tech spoilers.  It didn't contribute much to the war, it just looks cool.

In this sim, it could use its turn rate to dodge 1 pass from a single-engine fighter, then its E would be gone and it would be a floundering whale, waiting to get picked apart.

If you want a big ground pounding fighter the Mossie would fit the role, and they were built in much greater numbers than was the P-61.

--ra--

[Jochen]

 

As for being a peace of CRAP, well ..if it was, then how come it is one of the MOST valuable aircraft in the restoration industry. The USAF air museum received an offer 3 years ago for a private collector for 29 MILLION dollars to have. HE was turned down.

What a heck current restoration value has to do with it's performance in WW II? Nothing!

------------------
jochen
Geschwaderkommodore
Jagdgeschwader 2 'Richthofen' (Warbirds)

If you ever get across the sea to England,
Then maybe at the closing of the day
The bars will all be serving German lager
Which means we won the war - hip hip hooray!

[dolomite]

Try this:

   

[This message has been edited by dolomite (edited 01-19-2000).]

[Gorf]

  For RA,
Dude please go back and get your highschool education.  In some ways MINOR..MINOR expectations it did not quite meet it.. almost but not quite made it.  In others expectations it excelled beyound expectations.  The P61 was a electronic marvel ..and a mess but overall it was great.  Its role rate was not one of the highest but it was not even close to the bottom.  The P61, could and DID out turn ANYTHING in the US inventory in WWII that saw combat.  As for surviving ONE pass errr AGAIN please go due your research...(OH I am sorry I forgot.. you flunked WWII history in highschool) Depending on the Widow Variant.. you wouldn't come close to making the first pass as the 4 50s rosted your butt and IF you made the 1st pass, dont even think about getting in a turn and burn (unless you had a Zeke or a Spit) the P61 would burn you $&#* and frag it with 4 20s.

And bellybutton for Mossie,, well it is a good ground pounder and I love the plane, the point about the P61 was that it was a very effective Ground pounder, it was avery versitale plane.  

AND built in MASS has no bearing on how good a plane is.

And RA .. a QUIZ question for you.. what plane had the fastest role rate of any US fighter used in WWII..... GIVE UP??? P51.. NOT.. P38.. NOT... F4U.. NOT.. and the correct answer IS>>>>>> P47!

OH and as for 29million for the Widow..well that just reflects the rarerty of the plane and how valuable it is to the Collectors.


For JOCHEN..  good statement but.. ya missed the hole point.  When I ran the 61st Fighter Squadron in Warbirds... we shot down a lot  your guys.

DOLOMITE.. COOL PIC  THANKS!!

Gorf