Ackstarring, Whos to say is accepted/not acceppted, legal/illegal?

[Central]

Why is this tactic not accepted? Because its not a realworld W.W.II tactic? Or was it?

I've seen many of the newer pilots get flamed for doing such a stunt. When all i see, is they are using their resources to survive or save their home.

Ok, Any ways, I happened to watch a documentary on Midway. Quote from commentator
"every last plane would be needed for this impending battle" (consisting of 16-B17s and
??-B26s) "After the bombers hammered the CVs. The issue was decided, dive bomb and
then straf the targets".

I disregarded this, thinking that allied dive bombers were the ones bombing then strafing.
On looking closely at the footage, it clearly shows B26s down low strafing targets.

Ok, now im going to get someone saying "Well, if HTC puts in ground troops ackstarring
would be feasible". Well I have this to say, the Japanese didn't have a choice, all they could
do was launch what ever planes they had available on their CVs to intercept the allied
bombers.

Point being? They (Japan) had very limited planes to take off. We on the other had have the
choice of clicking the fly button regardless of how many times we die. The Ackstarring
Bomber that keeps shooting you down, hell, I give him credit for shooting you down if you
want to keep taking off from that base.

I've been a victim of this play as well, all I do is extend come in at alt and try and take them out.

Please, if you want to flame, Don't. I will be forced to go into a Head On with you, take you out with my Pea Shooter. And as I see you going in to your death spiral, I WILL chase you down and shoot you in your chute!    

Doc: Wings of Glory - AAF Fights Back

Central
Dickweed FG
 http://bombergroup.com  

[This message has been edited by Central (edited 01-19-2000).]

[This message has been edited by Central (edited 01-19-2000).]

[Saintaw]

Hi,
My 2 cents here...
I did that yesterday (Didn't know it was considered cheating yet). The reason why I did it, was that i saw a rook base being heavily attacked, and since I am still only 95% to be considered a target in a fighter, I decided to go for something I am a bit better at : Using gun turrets...

I didn't stay on the ground though, flew at 1K, passing back and forth above that runway...

Won't do it again, in any case, i will be flying in a far corner with a couple of friends to practice some form flying...then, when we feel a bit better, we will close in...


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Saint
DCO 186th Wardogs (Falcon4 Squad)
 http://www.wardogs.org/

[juzz]

The only real "dweeb" use of bomber gunners in AH is to get up and hose down the troops going for the map room, or the new method of using the B26 forward guns for that job. I say disable all guns on the ground; after all who would takeoff in a plane with fully armed weapons with the safeties off, let alone fire them while on a friendly airbase?

If some guy wants to fly around an airbase waiting for the enemy to spawn, let him. Admittedly it's a cheap tactic, but that's what you get for having the gameplay based solely on capturing airfields  

[Central]

Actually Juzz,

When Pearl Harbor was attacked by the Japanese, there happened to be a flight of B17s flying in. The go on to say "The 17s were unarmed and had no other choice but to find a place to land"

That leaves one with the, What if?? questions.  Had the 17s been loaded, would the tower tell them just to land? Or try to defend their base?  

And you cant say that just  dweebs do it. Would i be considered a dweeb if i did that? Brings me to one comment way back when in WBs,"Only Dweebs fly the P38". Why? Cause its too easy to fly? A very effective all around combat plane? Is that what they planned and wanted? Dont think you would have anyone sitting back saying, lets make a plane pilots cant handle and wont be effective.... oh, wait, they did create the P39  

Central
Dickweed FG
 http://bombergroup.com

[juzz]

What I was talking about was when you drop troops at an airbase and someone who was waiting in the tower spawns in a B-26 and mows them down with the forward machineguns. Last time it happened I rammed the sucker with my C-47, but it was too late. I wasn't being a dweeb, it was revenge!!  

The actual act of shooting up the troops with the plane's guns is fine - if you were about to takeoff and a bunch of infantry were rather cooperatively in front of your many .50 calibre machineguns who wouldn't give it to them?  

BUT the fact that the plane simply appears from thin air, with very little chance for any nearby fighters to destroy it before it has achieved its sole mission of shooting the drunks and stopping the field capture is what makes it a "dweeb" act. No matter how much effort is put into CAPing the field, bombing structures etc, there is no way to ensure this isn't possible, short of parking a B-26 at the end of the runway facing the spawn point...  

[combat23]

Central,

The B26's used at midway were Torpedo bombers, They were already down low in gun range cause they had to be. Can't drop a torpedo from 20k. Never heard of the B 17 strafeing at midway before, though there were some reports out of Euorpe that such was done.

See ya on line.

[Azrael]

The buff gunner positions are already disabled on the ground.

I'd say add this for all guns and additionally add a 'safety switch' that disables guns when gear is down.

Az

[Central]

combat,

Exactly my point, they had to resort to using the resources they have at that time. And why cant the drop it at 20 k?? It would just turn it into a bomb  

Juzz,

I totally agree with you on the troops.  


Central
Dickweed FG
 http://bombergroup.com

[juzz]

I've seen colour film footage in which the pilot of a B-17 orders the gunners to empty their guns into anything they see on the ground as they fly a low-level raid over a Japanese-held island in the Aleutians.

[dolomite]

The B26 has admittedly had a big impact on gameplay; if you don't know what I mean, go to a capped field and try to take off.  

In reference to the question "what would those Pearl Harbor B17's have done if they had ammunition?"... they would have died if they'd tried any ackstarring. Those were early B17's, without nearly the armament or armor. That particular B17's best defense was speed and alt performance, not dogfighting.  

Anything is permitted and legal (getting back to the original thread); what will give you player respect is another matter. Do I respect the "skill" of a "pilot" in a B26 (or fighter, for that matter) who seems to collect the bulk of his/her "kills" vultching runways? No. Everyone does it, but there are some who seem to occupy that niche soley.

I do think it is hilarious some of you guys think it is ok to take a bomber low and slow over a field to vultch, yet are angry at a bomber popping up to strafe troops. If you were really in that B26 strafing the runway, it would be a few high-speed passes and get out. For that reason, I think both acts are about as "real".  

I don't pop into bombers on a capped runway; when you're vultching me it will be fighter after fighter after fighter. Call it stupid, stubborn, whatever, but I won't give up til the bitter end. (Besides, there would be far less pilots out there thinking they were good if I didn't.  ) But I will say this; I will mow your troops down from the runway, from the air, from a broken craft. This seal has teeth, and I'm ready to gnaw the legs off the foolish pedestrians in my crosswalk!  

[Wimp]

Central I'm not talking about a bomber who is defending himself I'm  talking about the guys who after killing ack will circle base at low alt solely to keep fighters from taking off.Or the guy who doesn't even take bombs his only purpose is to fly through a furball.

That is ackstarring.

If you want to be a fighter you should FLY a fighter.

As Juzz stated it IS a cheap tactic and is normally frowned on.

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Dewey
Wimp
Mighty1

Baby Harp Seals

[Rifle]

I would venture to say that since in this sim (AH) you have to man your own guns, the term 'ackstar' does not apply - otto isn't in the picture.

1) ackstar implies that most of the defensive guns of a bomber are being used when attacking an enemy field or vs fighters in an offensive role.

2) in AH guns only fire when manned - more than one but only when manned.

Cheers,
     Rifle

[dolomite]

 

Originally posted by Rifle:
I would venture to say that since in this sim (AH) you have to man your own guns, the term 'ackstar' does not apply - otto isn't in the picture.

1) ackstar implies that most of the defensive guns of a bomber are being used when attacking an enemy field or vs fighters in an offensive role.

2) in AH guns only fire when manned - more than one but only when manned.

Cheers,
     Rifle

Give it whatever name you like, the results are the same.

[Heater]

 

Originally posted by azrael:
I'd say add this for all guns and additionally add a 'safety switch' that disables guns when gear is down.

Az

Only problem here is that I and a lot of others use the gear to slow down and force an "overshoot" if the guns are disabled with the gear down that would cause problems,
How about a "weight on wheels" type of system?



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!!! Heater !!!
Shit Happens All The Time

If you have any trouble sounding condescending, find a Unix user to show you how it's done."

[Saintaw]

Making my point here...
When I was flying that B17 yesterday evening, I was not Straffing the planes taking off, since it was a rook base, and I was rook...

The flyin' & gunnin' I did was meant to defend the base. As I stated, since I am still poor in fighting in a fighter, I decided to try to defend my country "the best way I could". I flew that B17, got 1 Kill and 1 assist, and was shot down, and bailed out...isn't that what would be called "using your assets ?".

If you're looking fo someone to strafe poor guys sittin' on the runway, don't look at me...


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Saint
DCO 186th Wardogs (Falcon4 Squad)
 http://www.wardogs.org/