Author Topic: Couple things that need to be done to make this setup suck even worse (Read 3085 times)

Sable · « **Reply #75 on:** August 17, 2004, 01:17:54 PM »

Well if you don't use perks you either end up in a situation where pilots have a choice between taking the F4F or F4U-1 and almost everyone opts for the better plane. Or you limit the F4U-1 to some rear field and no one takes it because they don't want to fly across the map to try and chase one bogey.

A Battle of Britain setup is another example where using perks could work well. Spitfires only made up about 1/6th of fighter command in Summer of 1940, but if you make both it and the Hurricane I available at no cost how many guys are going to be flying Hurricanes?

So getting back to our pacific scenario it's either mass seal clubbing by F4Us and F6Fs or you turn on the N1K2 - at which point is it really the Slot '43 anymore?

Squire · « **Reply #76 on:** August 17, 2004, 01:27:23 PM »

Agree with Sable here.

Oh btw Spitfires made up 40 percent of Fighter Command, not 1/6th

but i digress...

Personally, I think the perk sys in the CT worked really well when it was used in conjunction with a perk flush. F4U-1 at 4 pts say, Ki-61 at 2 pts, something like that, with A6M5 and P-40E/F4F as general rides would have worked well. It limits those who just roll and die from grabbing the best fighter every sortie, and thats the real point of it. I have seen the sys used at least twice in the CT, both times I thought it was a success. Why the CT staff has such a fobia of it I don't know.

B17Skull12 · « **Reply #77 on:** August 17, 2004, 01:44:45 PM »

also guys considre perks take up skuzzy's time.

Soulyss · « **Reply #78 on:** August 17, 2004, 01:50:06 PM »

THe problem with perks in the CT as I see it is (and there are two solutions that I can think of) regulars amass large quantities of perks over the weeks, yet to not completely exclude the new guys, or walk ons perk values are usually set relatively low. This isn't an effective limting factor on the high time players.

Course the flip side of that is that some may feel that people should be rewarded for spending large amount of time in, and supporting the CT. I do sympathize with that sentiment but at the same time I think we should be trying to welcome fresh blood into the arena and smacking down people who venture into the CT from the MA with high performance perk rides that they won't have as much access to is a step in the opposite direction.

The other option is an email to Skuzzy to reset everyones perk points to 0 thus players get to "earn" the better rides as the week goes on. Personally I perfer this approach but you'd be amazed at how many people throw a hissy fit over losing perk points that they never/rarely get to use anyway.

storch · « **Reply #79 on:** August 17, 2004, 02:25:49 PM »

Dudes we have had no problems killing F4Us and Kittys in a 3 allied v 1 zeke fight povided all the allies were low. Even then we have given them a run for the money if one was high. On the other side if a squaddie is on with me we have had no problems at all turning with the zekes and killing them. As long as the ratio is 1 v 1 or 2 hogs v 3 zekes. I don't see why all the nashing of teeth. This is easily one of the most fun planesets except for the ack.

Squire · « **Reply #80 on:** August 17, 2004, 02:26:08 PM »

" I perfer this approach but you'd be amazed at how many people throw a hissy fit over losing perk points that they never/rarely get to use anyway."

You got that right.

Wotan · « **Reply #81 on:** August 17, 2004, 06:19:50 PM »

Reschke, Eagler we will be on HL tonight around 8:30 ish eastern.

My HL nic is 4./JG53_Wotan

Eagler · « **Reply #82 on:** August 17, 2004, 07:10:28 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Wotan
Reschke, Eagler we will be on HL tonight around 8:30 ish eastern.

My HL nic is 4./JG53_Wotan

I'm on HL on but have to go run
I'll check in around 8:45 or so est
my HL nic is rookie_man

Simaril · « **Reply #83 on:** August 18, 2004, 07:34:13 AM »

I'm a CT lurker, having showed up a few times and died a few more than that. My best success came in BoB a month or so ago, when surprised myself by doing OK in a spit and then piling up assists in M16 vs low 88s. I have flow some pac sorties for the USN, both in the F4F plane set and in the current one.

I have a question for those many of you who apparently despise energy tactics -- why do you moan about the historical use of the aircraft?

WW2 US pilots were told to never slow down and to always maintain the advantage. This made sense with their equipment, which was generally high wing loaded, and it just makes sense for high wing loaded planes in AH.

Do you turners expect your opponents to up with half an ammo load, or with only one elevator? No? then why do you seem to expect energy fighters to fly at a hardware handicap by slowing to turnfight with you?

That's not being unaggressive; it seems to me that that's being smart. Isnt the whole point of ACM to understand your equipment, and use its advantages to outmaneuver your opponent?

I'd do more CT, but it just seems kinda elitist at times....

storch · « **Reply #84 on:** August 18, 2004, 08:43:58 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Simaril
I'm a CT lurker, having showed up a few times and died a few more than that. My best success came in BoB a month or so ago, when surprised myself by doing OK in a spit and then piling up assists in M16 vs low 88s. I have flow some pac sorties for the USN, both in the F4F plane set and in the current one.

I have a question for those many of you who apparently despise energy tactics -- why do you moan about the historical use of the aircraft?

WW2 US pilots were told to never slow down and to always maintain the advantage. This made sense with their equipment, which was generally high wing loaded, and it just makes sense for high wing loaded planes in AH.

Do you turners expect your opponents to up with half an ammo load, or with only one elevator? No? then why do you seem to expect energy fighters to fly at a hardware handicap by slowing to turnfight with you?

That's not being unaggressive; it seems to me that that's being smart. Isnt the whole point of ACM to understand your equipment, and use its advantages to outmaneuver your opponent?

I'd do more CT, but it just seems kinda elitist at times....

You are witnessing the time honored and almost exclusively American tactic of smack talking. It was reported that Maj. Gregory Boyington would routinely goad the Japanese on Rabaul to "up" disadvantageously with his phenomenal smack talking skills. At one time after many losses at the hands of the 214th one Japanese controller was reported to have said "If you wish to fight us Maj. Boyington you are cleared to land at Rabaul". The thing is that we are not in a life or death struggle. We are playing a game. it seems beyond infantile to me that you would spend three hours online running away from fights. Unless I'm being ganged up on by 8 zekes in a corsair I'll turn and fight knowing full well I'm going to get killed......in the game. Hopefully though I'm improving my skills. Afterall I'm still a noob and have much to learn and doing is knowing. But you timid souls go ahead and run run run.

Simaril · « **Reply #85 on:** August 18, 2004, 09:15:33 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by storch
You are witnessing the time honored and almost exclusively American tactic of smack talking. It was reported that Maj. Gregory Boyington would routinely goad the Japanese on Rabaul to "up" disadvantageously with his phenomenal smack talking skills. At one time after many losses at the hands of the 214th one Japanese controller was reported to have said "If you wish to fight us Maj. Boyington you are cleared to land at Rabaul". The thing is that we are not in a life or death struggle. We are playing a game. it seems beyond infantile to me that you would spend three hours online running away from fights. Unless I'm being ganged up on by 8 zekes in a corsair I'll turn and fight knowing full well I'm going to get killed......in the game. Hopefully though I'm improving my skills. Afterall I'm still a noob and have much to learn and doing is knowing. But you timid souls go ahead and run run run.

I'm confused. Are you saying its just smack, or are you saying energy tactics can't be aggressive?

Last time I flew a corsair vs zekes in the Ct, the complaint was that USN players "kept coming with altitude and extend before you can get a shot." This jsut seems smart to me, not unaggressive. I'm not talking about not fighting, just about not TURN fighting against a plane with barn door airelons....

storch · « **Reply #86 on:** August 18, 2004, 10:04:08 AM »

Not saying that at all. What I am saying is that here comes player A and makes 4 or 5 lame BnZ passes which player B dodges with few if any pings taken. Player A then scurries away. If this were a RL situation it would be acceptable. This is not RL. Why not stay and fight? Even if player A did die. I find that when I'm in a Hog in the CT the fact that I turn into the zekes catches them off guard and I get the kill in the two turns I can successfully execute before extending to set him up again. In the hog I am currently F4U-1 8/6 the 1D 3/3. In the F6F I'm 6/8. a good number of the deaths were from ack not just my poor flying skills. What I can say is that in every one of those fights I gave the IJN opponent a shot at killing me and the result was fun for both irrespective of the outcome. Maybe the game could stand a few more players that give as well as take in the fun catergory. That's all I'm trying to say. Waddaya think?

Mister Fork · « **Reply #87 on:** August 18, 2004, 10:27:41 AM »

Storch: for me, I try to play as real a possible which means that I will often try to stay alive at all costs.

But when I fly with you: something takes hold. I become savage ... every tink must die... sometink happenz to me, zere is almoz notink dat I vouldn't do vit aut butz I zuzt kant putz mie finker on zit. Hmmm... zaa it'z I denke in Deutsches! Plötzlich: Würfel feind! Würfel feind! Schnell Würfel feind!

Wenn I Ende and lanz vor kilz, tingz zart to bekom norml againz and I zust tink that it's all inz my head. I zon't, but mayve it's just me. Aftkr minutz or zo, I start to relax and think normal again. Hmmm...

storch · « **Reply #88 on:** August 18, 2004, 10:46:51 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Mister Fork
Storch: for me, I try to play as real a possible which means that I will often try to stay alive at all costs.

But when I fly with you: something takes hold. I become savage ... every tink must die... sometink happenz to me, zere is almoz notink dat I vouldn't do vit aut butz I zuzt kant putz mie finker on zit. Hmmm... zaa it'z I denke in Deutsches! Plötzlich: Würfel feind! Würfel feind! Schnell Würfel feind!

Wenn I Ende and lanz vor kilz, tingz zart to bekom norml againz and I zust tink that it's all inz my head. I zon't, but mayve it's just me. Aftkr minutz or zo, I start to relax and think normal again. Hmmm...

Karnak · « **Reply #89 on:** August 18, 2004, 11:00:02 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Mister Fork
Storch: for me, I try to play as real a possible which means that I will often try to stay alive at all costs.

But that isn't real. It is only symptomatic of a game in which you have no orders and no goals that must be accomplished. According to you "realism", live at all costs guys you would never do a slow climbing attack on the Ju88As in your Hurri I because that would risk your life. You would never come to the aid of a wingman in distress because that would risk your ever-so-precious life. Thing is, those and many other "unrealistic" actions happened all through the war.

Given the timidity that many of you fly with you never would have been put in fighters. You'd have been flying B-17s or Lancasters. Nice sedate aircraft that go in pretty straight lines and don't require agressiveness.

You guys also have a habit of stating that you're being realistic by using these tactics. Does that mean that I can expect you to turn and burn in earlier 1942 setups against the Japanese because realisitically those orders hadn't gone out yet?

That's what I thought.