Couple things that need to be done to make this setup suck even worse

[Grits]

Originally posted by Karnak
Given the timidity that many of you fly with you never would have been put in fighters.  You'd have been flying B-17s or Lancasters.  Nice sedate aircraft that go in pretty straight lines and don't require agressiveness.

Nope, your wrong Karnak, they would not have even given them buffs they have guns and bombs afterall, most would have been ferry pilots, or flying C47's or PBY's at best.

Simaril,

You are correct, energy[/b] fighting is not timid, but that is not what 99% do. Energy fighting entails rope-a-dopes, spiral climbs, extensive use of the verticle and other moves designed to take advantage of a plane like the F4U's strengths over the A6M, which is more than just pure speed, like its superior zoom ability.

What the majority do is nothing like that, what they do is "HO and very shallow extend" repeated endlessly. HO-and-extend or Joust-and-extend is not engery fighting, it IS[/b] extremely timid, and it shows the practitioner knows little/nothing of how to properly use their plane.

Just to clarify as I said earlier in the thread, this is not restricted to Pac setups, or in  Allied pilots exclusively. As an example, the Axis do it too when the Allies best plane is a turner like the Spit V and the Axis have the 190A-5. The complaints are loudest in Pac setups because the performance gap is so much bigger, but it happens to some degree in nearly every setup.

[storch]

Originally posted by Karnak
But that isn't real.  It is only symptomatic of a game in which you have no orders and no goals that must be accomplished.  According to you "realism", live at all costs guys you would never do a slow climbing attack on the Ju88As in your Hurri I because that would risk your life.  You would never come to the aid of a wingman in distress because that would risk your ever-so-precious life.  Thing is, those and many other "unrealistic" actions happened all through the war.

Given the timidity that many of you fly with you never would have been put in fighters.  You'd have been flying B-17s or Lancasters.  Nice sedate aircraft that go in pretty straight lines and don't require agressiveness.


You guys also have a habit of stating that you're being realistic by using these tactics.  Does that mean that I can expect you to turn and burn in earlier 1942 setups against the Japanese because realisitically those orders hadn't gone out yet?

That's what I thought.

You know that's an aspect that I hadn't considered.  Also we must factor in the mores of the time period.  Those guys were manly men.  I am old enough to have known some WWII vets when they were in their 40's and 50's.  Some of the one's I knew would clock your lights for impolite words, lawsuits be damned.  They didn't seem at all timid to me.

You are exactly right Karnak, commonwealth forces were on standing orders to engage the Japanese.  If a Commonwealth pilot was observed to run away from a fight it was a punishable offense.

[storch]

Originally posted by Grits
Nope, your wrong Karnak, they would not have even given them buffs they have guns and bombs afterall, most would have been ferry pilots, or flying C47's or PBY's at best.

Simaril,

You are correct, energy fighting is not timid, but that is not what 99% do. Energy fighting entails rope-a-dopes, spiral climbs, extensive use of the verticle and other moves designed to take advantage of a plane like the F4U's strengths over the A6M, which is more than just pure speed, like its superior zoom ability.

What the majority do is nothing like that, what they do is "HO and very shallow extend" repeated endlessly. HO-and-extend or Joust-and-extend is not engery fighting, it IS[/b] extremely timid, and it shows the practitioner knows little/nothing of how to properly use their plane.

Just to clarify as I said earlier in the thread, this is not restricted to Pac setups, or in  Allied pilots exclusively. As an example, the Axis do it too when the Allies best plane is a turner like the Spit V and the Axis have the 190A-5. The complaints are loudest in Pac setups because the performance gap is so much bigger, but it happens to some degree in nearly every setup. [/B]

Slowly cooked cornmeal and tankman are very good E fighters and I wouldn't dare call either one of them timid.  Other things yes timid no