Author Topic: Mid-air collision bug? (Read 5832 times)

whels · « **Reply #75 on:** August 16, 2004, 03:51:09 PM »

Things i and others have seen in AH1/2 with collisions.

ive flown directly through planes with no damage to either plane.
had a plane pass me on 1 side and lose wing to collision on
opposite side.
visually SEEN enemy plane fly past me , clearly missing
and yet get handed damage from collisions.
passing a enemy 200 yards away lose parts to collision.

well cant use film for evidence, HT says it doesnt show whole
picture :/

also been called a liar for above stuff, even though i and others
have witnessed it.

so its pointless to post about collision, it is what it is, and HT wants it that way.

whels

whels · « **Reply #76 on:** August 16, 2004, 03:56:07 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Karnak
HiTech,

Yeah, I considered that, but it is so rare as to mostly be a non-issue, so I didn't mention it.

What many people seem to believe is that there is a collision on both FEs and the slower connection wins, and it works that way every time. I know that when I played WarBirds I thought this. It wasn't until later that the light, belatedly, came on and I understood why it has to be the way that it is.

still havent been told how i can shoot/bomb said enemy con and hit/do damage/kill it with bullets/bombs where i SEE it on my FE.
yet its not there when a collsion occurs. if net lag is so bad that
i cant collide and do damage to both planes then i shouldnt
be able to shoot/bomb it either.

Eagler · « **Reply #77 on:** August 16, 2004, 04:11:28 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Karnak
HiTech,

Yeah, I considered that, but it is so rare as to mostly be a non-issue, so I didn't mention it.

What many people seem to believe is that there is a collision on both FEs and the slower connection wins, and it works that way every time. I know that when I played WarBirds I thought this. It wasn't until later that the light, belatedly, came on and I understood why it has to be the way that it is.

I believe the slower connection usually wins a collision, many times flying away unscathed

I have come out the loser on too many to think otherwise as I do not think many have a better conn to AH than I average

whels · « **Reply #78 on:** August 16, 2004, 04:15:28 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Eagler
I believe the slower connection usually wins a collision, many times flying away unscathed

I have come out the loser on too many to think otherwise as I do not think many have a better conn to AH than I average

yep Eagler,

2 guys went to the DA to test it. they BOTh flew level and straight
at each other, went through each other. 7 of the 10 crosses
1 plane damaged 1 not. plane with better con damaged each time.

Karnak · « **Reply #79 on:** August 16, 2004, 04:23:37 PM »

Eagler,

The vast majority of the time the collision only occurs on one system and in that case it really doesn't matter how fast or slow the connection is.

For the connection speed to matter the collision must happen on both systems, and given the common several hundred feet difference in position on the two FEs you can imagine that doesn't happen all that often.

phookat · « **Reply #80 on:** August 16, 2004, 04:41:20 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by whels
still havent been told how i can shoot/bomb said enemy con and hit/do damage/kill it with bullets/bombs where i SEE it on my FE.
yet its not there when a collsion occurs. if net lag is so bad that
i cant collide and do damage to both planes then i shouldnt
be able to shoot/bomb it either.

Your reasoning is flawed because we don't care about the damage done *to* your bullet, but we do care about the damage done to your plane and the other plane. You are trying to treat both cases the same, when they shouldn't be.

Re-read the above posts to see why the compromise solution we have now is the best possible.

phookat · « **Reply #81 on:** August 16, 2004, 04:47:22 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Eagler
I believe the slower connection usually wins a collision, many times flying away unscathed

I have come out the loser on too many to think otherwise as I do not think many have a better conn to AH than I average

You are coming to a conclusion without controlling all the variables. If you are colliding so often, it is far more likely that your flying style causes you to unintentionally ram other planes.

The collision method that I think HTC is using does not reward or punish based on connection speed, by design. If you collided, your FE saw the collision--regardless of your net speed. And that's it. If the other guy is warping on your FE, then you are probably warping on the other guy's FE and both are equally affected by the warping as far as collisions go.

phookat · « **Reply #82 on:** August 16, 2004, 04:56:36 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Karnak
Eagler,

The vast majority of the time the collision only occurs on one system and in that case it really doesn't matter how fast or slow the connection is.

For the connection speed to matter the collision must happen on both systems, and given the common several hundred feet difference in position on the two FEs you can imagine that doesn't happen all that often.

Good point, but I'm not sure if it is correct. Whel's experiments indicate that this is the case, but I still think a pure FE-based detection mechanism should not be affected by network connections on either side. Perhaps HTC is doing more than just that--a reality check on the server-side to prevent cheating, perhaps.

whels · « **Reply #83 on:** August 16, 2004, 05:00:11 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by phookat
Good point, but I'm not sure if it is correct. Whel's experiments indicate that this is the case, but I still think a pure FE-based detection mechanism should not be affected by network connections on either side. Perhaps HTC is doing more than just that--a reality check on the server-side to prevent cheating, perhaps.

the 1 collision i hate the worst is, the warping bomber AI drones

Captain Virgil Hilts · « **Reply #84 on:** August 16, 2004, 08:57:36 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by hitech
Yes you did say that.

The out come of what you are asking for would generate what I described. You can flame the idea, but it seems to me even thow you claim to understand the technical issues involved with lag and multiple clients that you don't.

You seem to not understand that there realy is not 1 reality.

I don't either, and I do not blieve debri damages you but I will double check.

Added to post:
Went and double checked, and you can not collide with debri.

HiTech

Nothing personal Hitech, but I have been killed at least 30 times by debris from planes I've shot down. This goes way back to AH I, not just the 5 times it happened in AH II Saturday night, which I understand you've found a bug to explain.

Look, I'm being nice here, I don't appreciate being told I don't understand a concept when I do. You have no more idea what I understand than lucull does. Believe me, I understand net lag, it ain't a difficult concept. Just because I don't agree with your solution to the problem does not mean I don't understand. A little respect as opposed to a condescending attitude would go a long way. To decide a person is ignorant just because they don't agree with your solution to a problem is more than just a little arrogant.

There is no other explanation for seeing your opponent explode in front of you (he's dead, he didn't kill you), at 5K feet of altitude ( you did not hit the ground), with no other plane even on dar in the sector (there was no one else to kill you), and suddenly being in the tower, with no credit for the kill, and a message saying you have been kill %^&* shot you down (this means someone killed you, it was not AI AAA). If there was nothing else around to kill you, then debris killed you.

If you kill your opponent, evidenced by him exploding, and you don't hit the ground, you have not been shot by anyone, and you haven't been damaged by anything, but you instantly go to the tower, with a message you've been shot down, by the guy you just killed, there's a problem. It's either a flaw in your collision model, or a really nasty bug.

Look, it's your world, I just rent a small piece of it @ $15 a month. I understand your positions, and I understand why you prefer the collision model as it is. That does not mean I am forced to agree that it is as it should be, nor does it mean I have to like it. I don't really care to argue about it. I can live with it, whether I agree with it or not.

hitech · « **Reply #85 on:** August 17, 2004, 09:47:42 AM »

Virgil: When I take the time to go look at code to make sure that debri can not kill you. And it realy is a simple deal to check if it could posibly collide.

And I tell you that you can not collide with it. I expect to be trusted on my statement.

There are lots of other posibilities for what you described. But the one posibibilty that is absoluty not posible is that the debrie killed you.

In the last patch there was a big typo on collisions that cause you to hit the aircraft at great distances. Until that patch is released I have turned collisions off.

Now belive me or not, it is up to you .But do not spread the rumor that debrie causes collision because it dosn't.

Whels:

Net lag does not effect weather collisions happen or not. No more than lag effects weather bullets hit or not. Varible lag can cause warping and effect collisions and bullets because you see the plane jump more. But if you collide or your bullets collide has nothing to do with lag.

HiTech

Kev367th · « **Reply #86 on:** August 17, 2004, 10:42:28 AM »

Read the whole thread - my head hurts, especialy after Lerches explanation.
I believe HT when he says debris cannot kill you, yet cannot understand how if you take a guys wing off it is possible to still collide with said wing. Or is the floating wing is not considered debris, therefore you are in effect colliding with the other aircraft?
Am I to understand collisions are now back off again pending new patch?

Thanks

lucull · « **Reply #87 on:** August 17, 2004, 10:48:58 AM »

Yes Kev.

Murdr · « **Reply #88 on:** August 17, 2004, 11:23:11 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Kev367th

I believe HT when he says debris cannot kill you, yet cannot understand how if you take a guys wing off it is possible to still collide with said wing. Or is the floating wing is not considered debris, therefore you are in effect colliding with the other aircraft

No, you have it right, debris are no longer attached to the pilot. The parts still attatched to the pilot are the ones to worry about. I cant count the times ive shot a wing off a slower plane only to smacked by the remaining wing spinning over as I pass by.

Now if your only talking about the current patch before it was disabled. Whatever the typo/bug was it caused it to at least appear that debris was doing damage.

Captain Virgil Hilts · « **Reply #89 on:** August 17, 2004, 12:49:46 PM »

Thanks for at least turning collisions off until your fix can be implemented.