Author Topic: Question for veterans.  (Read 1392 times)

Offline GRUNHERZ

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Question for veterans.
« on: August 16, 2004, 04:21:01 PM »
Very simple.

Kerry left Vietnam only 4 months into his tour after 3 Purple Hearts for what were undisputedly very  light injuries.

Of course this was his right to ask to leave according to US navy policies.

But my question is how do you feel about him leaving behind his men and his comrades so early when he was still able to fight and in no way impaired by his light injuries.

Offline Nilsen

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Question for veterans.
« Reply #1 on: August 16, 2004, 04:24:55 PM »
i would call that a leading question grunherz :)

ill leave it to the "vets" now

Offline Furious

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« Reply #2 on: August 16, 2004, 04:26:35 PM »
I think that if I was in VN and had a chance to leave I would take it.

Don't really shiv a get what kerry did/does though.  Does that make my answer invalid?

Offline SOB

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« Reply #3 on: August 16, 2004, 04:32:30 PM »
Sounds like a smart decision to me...of course, I'm not a veteran.
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Offline wklink

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Question for veterans.
« Reply #4 on: August 16, 2004, 04:59:02 PM »
Ok, I'll sorta field this one.

I was in Kuwait for the second Gulf War as some of you know.  Don't know if I will go back or not anytime soon, there are rumbles  but nothing positive on the horizon.  That's life, it's the life I chose.


Anyway I don't really fault him for leaving after four months.  If his wounds and his awards are legitimate (and there is some cause to question that) then I don't fault him at all.  Getting hurt three times in a four month period, getting a Silver and Bronze Star with valor for combat and such probably would warrent a trip home.   I wouldn't fault him for taking the ticket home, that much action and that many close calls would scare the crud out of me and I probably wouldn't want to stick around for the next eight myself.

If he scammed the system, using dubious injuries and fabricating after action reports to inflate his combat record, then I am very upset with him.  To do so would be a slap at the face of every soldier that was injured legitimately in the conflict.  I honestly cannot be totally sure what happened there.  I am hearing some very contradictory stuff concerning his war record over there.  Do I believe a senior senator and his supporters or do I believe a bunch of swift boat vets, most of them highly decorated and honorable, who say the exact opposite.  

To be honest, until recently I have given Senator Kerry something of the benefit of the doubt.  Yes I am a conservative Republican by nature but I still gave him the benefit of the doubt.  I tend to be more and more dubious of his war record the more I find that stuff is fabricated.  His whole Cambodia thing is starting to crack the belief that I had in his truthfulness.  It is obvious that he lied about his exploits in that country (Christmas in 1968).  Making an inflammatory statement like he did concerning was was essentially an illegal operation only to find it didn't happen casts doubts on the rest of his record.
The artist formerly known as Tom 'Wklink' Cofield

Offline Martlet

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Question for veterans.
« Reply #5 on: August 16, 2004, 05:11:21 PM »
I don't fault him for leaving.  I don't fault anyone for legally avoiding combat.  It's an individual choice.

If the accusations that he faked injuries to bail are true, though, that speaks volumes in my opinion.

Offline -MZ-

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Re: Question for veterans.
« Reply #6 on: August 16, 2004, 05:15:22 PM »
G.I. Joe is a fake
Veterans group says military hero lied about his record; claims evil villains escaped his clutches during war against Cobra.

- - - - - - - - - - - -
By Dan Kois

Aug. 14, 2004  |  WASHINGTON -- As G.I. Joe, the leader of America's daring, highly trained special missions force, celebrates his 40th anniversary this summer, a group of veterans has aired television advertisements attacking his military record. The ads, purchased by G.I. Joe Veterans for Truth, accuse Joe of lying about his war record and letting villains escape throughout the 1985-86 war against Cobra, Destro and the forces of evil.

In one 60-second ad, veterans of the two-year-long, completely televised war -- in which every weekday afternoon American troops fought Cobra, a ruthless terrorist organization determined to rule the world -- speak out about G.I. Joe. "I served with G.I. Joe," says one veteran, Thomas Ross. "G.I. Joe is no real American hero."

In interviews yesterday arranged by G.I. Joe Veterans for Truth, a nonprofit arm of a little-known think tank called Serpentine Enterprises, the veterans -- low-level G.I. Joe foot soldiers, all code-named "grunts" -- were unanimous in describing Joe as an incompetent leader unfit for command and not worthy of honor. Rogers, a blue laser gunner 1st class, described the ordeal he was put through during the celebrated incident in which the entire male leadership of the Joe team was hypnotized by the Baroness and her Conch of the Sirens.

"Our entire platoon was ordered to attack Cobra base just to free all these addlepated G.I. Joes," Robertson said. "We risked our lives to save the Joes -- not the other way around." During the pitched battle, Robertson disarmed and captured three Cobra soldiers by shooting a nearby tree with his blue laser gun, causing the tree to fall on the enemy, trapping them. "I was dodging red lasers left and right," Robertson added. "G.I. Joe said he'll fight for freedom wherever there's trouble. That was a lie."

Another veteran, G.I. Joe Air Combat pilot Matthew Albers, noted that his squad was called in as air support when G.I. Joe allowed Cobra to take over Fort Knox. "This Zartan fellow disguised himself as the general in charge of the fort," Albers said, "and G.I. Joe was completely fooled. We had to scramble a dozen planes to attack a United States Army base, just because Joe couldn't see through a dime-store mask."

Albers' F-14 was shot down by a Cobra red laser cannon; the pilot and co-pilot had only seconds to eject and parachute to safety before the plane exploded. "Luckily," said Albers, "we escaped with only minor injuries."

His eyes misted up as he recalled the carnage that terrible day. "Eleven American soldiers suffered minor injuries at Fort Knox," he said. "Was it worth it?"

After G.I. Joe retook Fort Knox, Albers added, every major Cobra officer escaped, including Zartan, Buzzer, Maj. Bludd, and Cobra Commander. "Didn't catch a one. We heard them cursing Joe's name, but they drove away in a Hiss tank. Is that never giving up or staying till the fight's won?" he asked. "No, it isn't."

In a press conference today, the public faces of G.I. Joe -- Hawk, Lady Jaye, Flint and Sgt. Slaughter -- assembled outside G.I. Joe headquarters. They were flanked by much of the Joe team, including the mysterious ninja Storm Shadow, silent and brooding, and the Native American tracker Spirit, feeding mice to his eagle Freedom in a dignified manner. (Joe himself resides in seclusion; the few glimpses the public has been offered suggest he is a giant of a man, up to four times as tall as the rest of his soldiers.)

"None of the grunts were present for G.I. Joe organizational meetings," Flint said. "We're grateful to them for all they've done for our country, but they simply don't understand the tough choices G.I. Joe has had to make to keep America safe over the past 40 years. He kept Cobra Commander from carving his face on the moon with a giant laser. He shut down Destro's Texas dude ranch. He stopped the Crimson Guard from replacing all the world's money with Cobra currency. G.I. Joe was there."

Asked about the number of times G.I. Joe let major international terrorists escape, Flint scoffed. "Let them escape? No way. These guys have escape plans, jet packs, submarines constantly at the ready. We're just trying to foil their plans while keeping all our men safe. That's why the 1985-86 Cobra war was the only war ever fought by U.S. troops in which no American or enemy soldiers died."

Flint stepped back as Sgt. Slaughter took the microphone, shouting that two of the veterans in the TV ad bought by G.I. Joe Veterans for Truth were obviously Crimson Commander twins Tomax and Xamot in disguise. Lady Jaye came to the microphone and gently dismissed Slaughter's accusation. "We are, however, worried that the ads might be secretly funded by Cobra," Jaye added. "You reporters should remember that politically motivated advertisements aren't always what they seem. Often, back in the shadows, the people pulling the strings might not be interested in telling the truth."

The reporters at the press conference, surprised, smiled and clapped each other on the back. "Now we know," said Rick Atkinson, a correspondent for the Washington Post.

"And knowing," said Lady Jaye, "is half the battle."

salon.com

Offline rpm

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Question for veterans.
« Reply #7 on: August 16, 2004, 05:19:45 PM »
VERY leading question Grun. I say you let me blast a few mines and RPG's very close while spraying you with an AK-47. Let's do this for 4 months  in a row and if you have a "few minor" injuries we'll discuss it then.


As long as we are throwing hypotheticals around... what do you thing of a man that used his father's considerable political pull to dodge the draft and get a very coveted Air National Guard stateside post, then wandered off without fulfilling that cushy committment?

Looks like one guy had the guts, the other had the connections.
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Offline Pongo

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Question for veterans.
« Reply #8 on: August 16, 2004, 05:22:58 PM »
His second tour. He did one at sea.
What do I think about it?  I thinks you protest to much. Thats what I think.

Offline Martlet

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« Reply #9 on: August 16, 2004, 05:25:05 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Pongo
His second tour. He did one at sea.
What do I think about it?  I thinks you protest to much. Thats what I think.


That's not a tour, it's a cruise, and he spent most of it in Australia and the phillipines.

Offline Mini D

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Question for veterans.
« Reply #10 on: August 16, 2004, 05:29:04 PM »
Are you considering military service grun?  Maybe you should drop this subject until you figure out why I'd even ask that question in this thread.

Offline Gunslinger

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Question for veterans.
« Reply #11 on: August 16, 2004, 05:55:14 PM »
as a vet I dont fault him but I would also say that doesnt make one a shining example.

OTOH,

I've read that most of his fellow swift boat commanders...you know the ones that SERVED with him basically asked him to leave because they were sick of him.  But hay there just veitnam vets and we have a presidential election coming up so what does that matter.

Offline Sandman

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Question for veterans.
« Reply #12 on: August 16, 2004, 06:10:03 PM »
He did his time and he went home. Happens all the time.
sand

Offline Ripsnort

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« Reply #13 on: August 16, 2004, 06:10:52 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Sandman
He did his time and he went home. Happens all the time.


Yep, 'cept his story has changed a few times...

Offline Maniac

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Question for veterans.
« Reply #14 on: August 16, 2004, 06:13:24 PM »
Thats how you become a veteran. In war its the coward who survives.
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