Plane type vs "performance"...?

[dtango]

Shane:

I don't think the 412th was ever opposed to changing sides.   Besides friendships we've developed among the squadron we've made some friends with other rooks.  We like making friends I guess and that's why we've stuck around with the rooks.

Not sure where we've stated that we'd be unwilling to move.  We'd be happy to move as long as we could do it as a squad.  I think our issues have been access to P-51D's and making it harder to fly together with the ENY limiter system.  Moving countries with the current system wouldn't solve these issues since the ENY system is applied if you happen to be in country with higher numbers at that moment in time.

Tango, XO
412th FS Braunco Mustangs

[dtango]

humble:

For some squad members the P-51D is the quintisential Mustang.  I venture to guess that is true for others as well.  Check out the number of D models at airshows vs. B models.  That's what folks have gotten accustomed to when they think of the Mustang.  

For me personally I don't mind the P-51B but I certainly do understand why folks may plainly prefer the P-51D.  The choice to me here is like do you like Budweiser or Bud-light?  Some folks like the straight up bud vs. the bud-light.  Others may not see the difference.

Tango, XO
412th FS Braunco Mustangs

[Ack-Ack]

Originally posted by humble
From a tactical mission standpoint there is not a single thing a pony can do that a 38 (or a Jug) can't do better.

There is one thing, it can run better.


ack-ack

[Sikboy]

Tango's not convincing me that he's right, but he sure is making me thirsty

-Sik

[J_A_B]

Well some people simply don't CARE about any of the other units.  Speaking only for myself here, but the P-51D is the only airplane in AH that I have any interest whatsoever in.  Except in a few rare cases, if I'm not in the Mustang in the MA, I'm not having fun.  And that isn't only in AH, that is in ANY flightsim I play (for example I never stayed with WW2OL since it doesn't have the Mustang, and the P-51D was all I flew for 95% of the 5 years I played AW).  If the flight limiter causes me to be unable to fly it when I want, I'd log off and if it happens a lot I'd cancel my account.   I'm deliberately NOT playing for a few weeks in an effort to let the numbers sort themselves out to spare myself unnecessary frustration.   After a few weeks I'll give it a chance, but I have a pretty bad feeling about this.

I don't take ordnance and I'm not a "mission" guy.  I feel that the Mustang is a pretty crappy plane for A2G work and if I WAS going to do A2G, I'd take an F4U or a P-47 or something like that.  Honestly it isn't really all that great for dogfighting either and I still don't understand why it is so common in AH (in AW it wasn't common at all).  It isn't even much of a runner in an arena full of LA7's and D-9's and such.

I'm also well aware that not many people would have the same dedication as I do to a particular plane (especially when you faactor in that I don't really care about its historical reputation).  In a worst case scenario I can see myself possibly having to leave AH (wouldn't be the first time).  But if it keeps more people who would have quit due to the numbers problem then it's still a decent decision for HTC.   Either way I'm going to give it a fair chance.



I think the big mistake, is trying to make the MA a "goal" oriented arena instead of merely a "make your own goal" type of place.  The number imbalances were never so bad, so consistently, until after the MA began doing things like rewarding perks for a reset.  Suicide porkers don't really matter except for the fact that they're often the best way to win a reset.  


J_A_B

[humble]

J_A_B

1st piece of logic I can really understand, do you have a problem changing countries to fly the D?

I don't agree with you, but I do understand. Curious if you've ever switched to a different ride for a tour...or even a week?

[humble]

Originally posted by Sikboy
Tango's not convincing me that he's right, but he sure is making me thirsty

-Sik

Hehe.....

I don't think that there is a right or wrong here. To me it's a balance between plane & country choice. To balance the arena the side with a numbers advantage will have a "lesser" plane set...however it really isn't a "lesser" plane set...jut a less popular one. Personally I'd simply grab my "backup" ride for a particular "mission profile" vs changing countries.

Nikki = Fm2
spitIX = spitV/Yak
La-7 = La-5
P51-D = P38/P47-30/F4U-D

[J_A_B]

"do you have a problem changing countries to fly the D? "

No, but I am concerned that with the country side-change limitations, problems may arise.  Like I said, I'm deliberately NOT flying for awhile specifically to give things time to settle down some.  I'm not one to make rash decisions.  


"Curious if you've ever switched to a different ride for a tour...or even a week?"

No, not in an arena--and not only in AH.  The Mustang has been my main flightsim ride since within a couple months of my starting flightsims with AW back in the mid '90's (Ironically I initially chose it partly because it was a fairly unique unit which almost nobody used, a far cry from AH).  Once in a blue moon I'll pick something else, but it's rare and certainly never for longer than a flight or two.  Likewise, I've flown other models in scenarios and in the CT but I'd never make such places my "home".   I won't play WW2OL since there's no Mustang, and I haven't played WB's since they added the RPS.   Spending a signifigant amount of time in the arena in anything else just has no value for me.  

I don't pick the P-51D for performance (it isn't that good IMO) or historical value (I couldn't care less)....I pick it because it's "my" ride....it's part of my identity in these online flightsims, just as much as the _'s in my online name (which AH stupidly disallows but that's a different subject and..well...I still have it on the BBS anyway).  I tend to do that in every type of game I play--I'll identify myself with a particular unit type.  


You say you disagree....there's nothing to disagree with.  I'm only speaking for myself here, and that is how I feel.  


J_A_B

[Mak333]

Originally posted by humble
dtango...

I understand the "I like the pony and prefer to fly it" arguement completely.

If the pony is unavailable, there are other choices that allow you to accomplish the same thing. Since Midnight made it clear that you guys don't fly it in the "multipurpose" role you could just as easily use P51-B/P-38/P47-30 in same role and probably get equal results.

P47 is way too heavy to get into turn fights with.

38 starts to lock up its services after 400mph.

P51B doesnt carry enough ord to take out hangers in 100 different passes.

I take back what I said about people not flying the thing to get their selves into trouble.  Yes the 51 can run, but it also can do many other things a 47, or a 38 can not.  But the main reason why there is so much griping about it is because squad's fly it as their primary flight, and for missions.

[Zippatuh]

Originally posted by Mak333


...People don't fly the thing because they want to get into dog fights and kick someone else's bellybutton in an La7....

Negative, some people do.

If I want to JABO, I jump in a F4U.  Much better suited for air to ground but that’s a personal opinion.

Actually I want to get into a 1 on 1 with an LA7.  Especially with the new stall characteristics of the 51.  If I can beat an LA7 in a stall fight, then I’m flying very well or the other pilot sucks.

I have little to no attack scores, most all of my kills are in the 51D, and I would rather be at 15K co-alt with another 51 in a hand-to-hand than be swirling around in a large furball or cherry picking the blind.

There’s just not many though that are willing to go toe to toe, regardless of aircraft selection.

[simshell]

Originally posted by Mak333
P47 is way too heavy to get into turn fights with.

38 starts to lock up its services after 400mph.

P51B doesnt carry enough ord to take out hangers in 100 different passes.

I take back what I said about people not flying the thing to get their selves into trouble.  Yes the 51 can run, but it also can do many other things a 47, or a 38 can not.  But the main reason why there is so much griping about it is because squad's fly it as their primary flight, and for missions.

a light Jug can turnfight and would give a P51D a run for its money it would come down to pliot

the P38L has dive flaps and trim this shows that pliots lack the understanding to use it in the Jabo rule

and i hope you mean turn fighting in Light planes only a fool would turnfight in a heavy P51D or anything for that matter

i prefer the P38 because it handles alot better then the P51D with ords


but the hole point of bombing a base is geting there so thats why people want the fastest nonperk Jabo while anything slower gives them lower chance of geting there in a Jabo

[Ack-Ack]

Originally posted by Mak333


38 starts to lock up its services after 400mph.

 

That's only true if you do not know what you are doing in the P-38.  Veteran P-38 drivers in here can get the P-38 will beyond 450mphIAS and still retain control.  Of course the controls will be sluggish from the aerodynamic forces but we can keep our P-38s from locking up.  The key is understanding when and how compressability effects the P-38.  

Keep elevator trimmed to neutral, do not use combat trim and do not, repeat do not, enter into a high speed dive above 20,000ft in a P-38.  Follow those rules and you won't have to worry about compressability.


ack-ack

[humble]

Originally posted by Mak333
P47 is way too heavy to get into turn fights with.

38 starts to lock up its services after 400mph.

P51B doesnt carry enough ord to take out hangers in 100 different passes.

I take back what I said about people not flying the thing to get their selves into trouble.  Yes the 51 can run, but it also can do many other things a 47, or a 38 can not.  But the main reason why there is so much griping about it is because squad's fly it as their primary flight, and for missions.

As has already been pointed out...these are the misconceptions that exist...

A well flown Jug will give you fits...a LIGHT well flown jug will give you nightmares...

A 38 doesn't compress as badly as you think and is controllable over 450 (as ack ack said).

Now a 38/P47 will provide JABO capability as good better than a pony. The "B" pony isnt really a jabo bird...but is an outstanding A to A plane with "some" JABO capability.

I'm not saying that any are "better" than the D pony, just that they are all "historically correct" quality options if the "D" isnt available...

[TequilaChaser]

Originally posted by dedalos
I am not saing that the 51 is used to run.  However, in an environment such as the MA, with red guys at 1k, 5k, 10k . . .20k some turners some speed deamons, most planes without at list one wing man, are death traps.  There is no way you will survive the MA in a F4U for example unless there is team work involved.  So, having a plane like 51D that can run or turnfight, can help you get out of troble and chose your batles a little better when you are by yourself.  After all, no one wants to be just a target.

I wouldn't have used an F4U as an example here, to me I can do more in a F4U than I can in a P51 outside of  say extending to safety, If flown smartly you can get successful sorties easily with the F4U types and you do not need a wingman to do them, although a wingman makes it that much easier.

but we all know I am a  F4U fanatic!

[Grits]

Originally posted by Mak333
P47 is way too heavy to get into turn fights with.

Are you sure about that? Ever seen Shane flying a D-11?