p38 DM

[killnu]

is it just me or is DM in 38 seemed a tad...weird?  if you get hit, at all, it is either a pilot wound or tail comes off, very little in between.  thoughts?
it seems like that since last update.
~S~

[ZZ3]

I agree with your assessment. The tail seems to just fall off with the greatest of ease.
Patch 7 was the first time I could say nothing bad about the way the game played. As it is now, I am very unhappy.

[DoKGonZo]

All I can go by is personal observance, but I take pilot hits a lot more often in the 38. Even from hits at dead-6 from AAA below me.

[Captain Virgil Hilts]

Been that way for a while now. Several threads on both the seeming return of the infamous glass tail and also the seeming certainty of a pilot wound no matter where the shot comes from.

[Karnak]

In my experience all twin engined fighters have a much greater chance of getting a pilot wound.  When attacking GVs or bombers it is almost assured.

Don't know about the tail.

[DoKGonZo]

Originally posted by Karnak
In my experience all twin engined fighters have a much greater chance of getting a pilot wound.  When attacking GVs or bombers it is almost assured.

Don't know about the tail.

Hmmmm ... wonder if having rounds hitting the engine block is part of the calculation. That could explain twin-engine fighters having "glass jaws."

[MOSQ]

I get pilot wounded in my Mossie constantly. Last night got it from an F6F a ways back on my dead 6 and falling back. The Mossie has a very large armor plate behind the pilot. Tail damage, elevator damage, sure, but pilot wound?

[Captain Virgil Hilts]

Originally posted by Karnak
In my experience all twin engined fighters have a much greater chance of getting a pilot wound.  When attacking GVs or bombers it is almost assured.

Don't know about the tail.

I agree completely. I think it also applies to AAA as well.

[Ack-Ack]

Originally posted by killnu
is it just me or is DM in 38 seemed a tad...weird?  if you get hit, at all, it is either a pilot wound or tail comes off, very little in between.  thoughts?
it seems like that since last update.
~S~

I Frequently get pilot wounds from puffy acks if I stay in the barrage for too long.  As for the plane damage, I must be hitting the bong a little too much but I haven't had all that much troubles with the glass tail lately but I have had an increase in damaged guns and engines.  Last night before my Intertardnet connection died, landed my P-38 that was missing 1 flap, 1 elevator, both ailerons, 1 stabilizer/rudder and both engines smoking.  Made landing rather interesting.



ack-ack

[Kweassa]

Hmmmm ... wonder if having rounds hitting the engine block is part of the calculation. That could explain twin-engine fighters having "glass jaws."

 I'd think so too.

 I admit that I'm not a very frequent flyer in two engined planes except the 110, but logically speaking, a two-engined plane would not have any engine block in front of him acting out as a gigantic shield.

 Also, when it comes to the P-38, it's got a small egg-shaped cockpit that's separate from any part of the fuselage. The cockpit area is small, and does not have a long fuselage to puncture through to get to the pilot.

  A shot from the 6'oc angle would almost always either strik the tail boom, or the short cockpit. I wouldn't think anything is strange - neither the frequency of pilot wounds, nor the frequency of tail busts.

 ...

 If there is anything fishy at all, it's the frequency of tail destruction which occurs in ALL planes. How many times have you flown in AH, to lose only a single horizontal stab? Never in my years of AH flying, have I ever lost a single stab. It's always two horizontal stabs gone at the same time, which throws the plane off balance.

 However, the funny thing is, during off-line testing I did find out that it was possible to destroy only one horizontal stab.

 ...

 Maybe AH should strengthen the horizontal stabs/booms on all planes - so that there's a level of partial damage applied to the H-stabs.

 For example, when we are hit in the H-stab, we lose the elevator, or the stab itself. Maybe the horizontal stab should also have something like "half blown away" - such as wings. AH wings  have three different types of damage - wingtip, half wing, and wingroot(the whole wing). Maybe the Hstab should be like that too.. elevator destroyed, half of Hstab destroyed, and Hstab totally falling off...

[Kweassa]

To clarify on what I'm saying a bit more..


 Some time ago, there was some debate on whether or not AH is realistc when it comes to tail damage.

 The main question was - "what happens if a plane suddenly loses its two Hstabs during flight?"

 Some people have come up with the answer that it shouldn't suddenly nose up and get thrown off balance like it does in AH. I'm no physics expert and I have no idea how aerodynamics work, but I do remember that the result of the discussion was that indeed, if a plane suddenly loses all of its Hstabs, it would behave as it does in AH.

 So, I think it comes down to the question "how often does such incredible damage occur to a plane"?

 During that discussion, I seem to recal some real pilots commenting they indeed, actually have seen such thing happening.. but my impression was that it was very rare.

 However, tail damage is the most frequent thing to happen in AH. There isn't any statistics made in AH for the reasons for aicraft loss, but empirically, I'd guess that the #1 reason for aircraft loss is from wing damage(tips, halfwing, or total wing), and #2 would be Hstab loss.

 IMO, I think the Hstabs should be strengthened for all planes. So, it would be common thing to lose one stab, but losing them both at the same time as if they were surgically removed, would be a rare thing to happen.

[Karnak]

Here is a diagram of the P-38's cockpit armor layout.

Thanks to Murdr for posting it

The Mossie's cockpit armor followed much the same pattern, adjusted for the different cockpit design.  I don't know about the Bf110.

Also keep in mind that in both the P-38 and Mossie you have guns and ammo bins mounted in front of the armor.  These would also stop some rounds, particularly rifle calibre rounds.

[Ghosth]

Not that I fly twin engine aircraft that much.

But looking at the pic above it seems fairly obvious that someone in the rear quarter shooting at it will get a lot of hits on that pod.

If he is exactly dead 6 the armour should work. (unless its penitrated).

However if he's off to the side even slightly I can see 20mm rounds sliding by the armour & hitting the dash & exploding.

Giving a pilot wound.

[Karnak]

Most of the pilot wounds I get are from the fron when attacking GVs.

Also keep in mind that the engines on each side do provide some protection from sides hits.  More so in the case of the P-38 than the Mossie.

[Kweassa]

Most of the pilot wounds I get are from the fron when attacking GVs.

 Then that'd be a question of machine guns vs armoured glass.

 I'd bet on the machine guns, than trust a thick, hardended glass.

 Especially if the kinetic model of rounds work in the same way as attacking a buff from a fighter.

 ...

 Also, I would think that its a question of situational realism than a fishy DM.

 If someone had a machine gun in his hands, and felt suicidal, and directly aimed and kept firing it against an incoming aircraft.. yeah, I'd say he'd have a pretty big chance of hurting the pilot.

 Except in real life, no tank driver would be sticking his neck out and be able to fire vibration-free machine guns against incoming aircraft.