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Author Topic: The decline of the spit IX.  (Read 1145 times)

Offline thrila

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The decline of the spit IX.
« on: August 23, 2004, 09:47:38 AM »
Very interesting.  The spit V is beating it by about 1000 kills.

It could very well drop out of the top 5. :eek:The p38 only has 700 kills less.  The tiffie and 190 D9 are hot on it's heels too.
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Offline Edbert

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The decline of the spit IX.
« Reply #1 on: August 23, 2004, 09:50:01 AM »
You 'have' to credit the increased use of the Dora to my skin you know :D
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Offline Flyboy

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The decline of the spit IX.
« Reply #2 on: August 23, 2004, 09:57:19 AM »
thats good news, all the dweebs move on to the spit5 and leave the spit9 to me
muahhahaha
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Offline Ohio330

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The decline of the spit IX.
« Reply #3 on: August 23, 2004, 09:57:29 AM »
Not surprising due to the fact that Spit 9  frequently
becomes unselectable due to the ENY thing, and more
ppl are flying the 5 because of it.
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Offline Zanth

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The decline of the spit IX.
« Reply #4 on: August 23, 2004, 10:02:12 AM »
A lot more sorties from CV's too I reckon, but still interesting data.
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Offline Karnak

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The decline of the spit IX.
« Reply #5 on: August 23, 2004, 10:49:11 AM »
Speed is also king for fighters in AH2.  The inability to swing around and nail a retreating con at 800 yards has hurt both the Spitfire and the N1K2, but the N1K2 at least has gobs of ammo.


In order to hit you need to get close and the easiest way to get close is to be fast.  The La-7, P-51D, Fw190D-9 and Typhoon all have the speed to get close fast.  The P-38L isn't really fast, but nor is it slow and it has great centerline mounted guns for longer range shooting.  It also carries a lot of ordinance with easy.
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Offline Urchin

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The decline of the spit IX.
« Reply #6 on: August 23, 2004, 10:50:02 AM »
Yea, but that trend has been happening for a few tours now.  I "predicted" earlier that the Spit 5 would eventually get more kills than the Spit 9 and Niki, but that was before the ENY system, which has definately had an effect.  

In a way it is to bad, I am pretty sure it would have happened anyway if the ENY system hadn't come along, but nobody will ever know for sure now.
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Offline Flyboy

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The decline of the spit IX.
« Reply #7 on: August 23, 2004, 11:04:13 AM »
i allso see far fewer nikis which is a good, no wait, great thing :)
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Offline Karnak

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The decline of the spit IX.
« Reply #8 on: August 23, 2004, 11:05:08 AM »
Urchin,

I think you're right about the Spit IX, but not the N1K2.  The +16lbs Boost Spit V doesn't really give anything up to the Spit IX at AH combat altitudes.  The N1K2 still has a huge ammo load and much better verticle performance.


Flyboy,

Why?  I just don't get that.  The N1K2 is so slow it is helpless and harmless.  The La-7 and it's ilk are far, far, far worse for gameplay than the N1K2 ever was.
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Offline Mister Fork

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The decline of the spit IX.
« Reply #9 on: August 23, 2004, 11:10:01 AM »
It's because the Spit V is the new diamond in the rough (not to mention the boost is at maximum at all altitudes and times (16 pounds/100 oct).  Thing accelerates like a cheetah on a fat gazell.

I do believe the boost on the Spit V is a single stage supercharger.  There were several variants of the Merlin 45 series engine, a low altitude and a high altitude variant where the boost was calibrated for either 1km or 4km in altitude.  

Seeing how both the Seafire and the Spit V we have boosts to 16, it means Pyro/Superfly has modelled  the Merlin 45 which allows 16 lbs at all levels.  The 4th Fighter Group has some good information with actual test results here: http://www.fourthfightergroup.com/eagles/aa878.html (Merlin 45)
 
There is of course differences in boost available during climb and at level flight, I'm not sure if this is modelled. The boost on the SpitV may need to be tweaked a little I think for two aspects - boost at climb, and boost at level flight (all related to speed) or at least explained which version of the Spitfire V engine we have... Pyro/HiTech/Superfly? Also, the limit for boost of the Merline 45 A.A 878 engine is only 3 minutes before maximum engine temperatures are reached.

- Lumsden, Alec, British Piston Aero-Engines and their Aircraft, Airlife, 1994.
- White, Graham, Allied Piston Engines of World War II, Airlife, 1995.
- Rubbra, A.A., Rolls-Royce Piston Aero Engines – A Designer Remembers, Rolls-Royce Heritage Trust, 1990.
« Last Edit: August 23, 2004, 12:18:39 PM by Mister Fork »
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Offline Ohio330

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The decline of the spit IX.
« Reply #10 on: August 23, 2004, 11:35:06 AM »
I don't have any specific idea why, but I seem to have
better success in the Spit 5 over the Spit 9.
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Offline Urchin

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The decline of the spit IX.
« Reply #11 on: August 23, 2004, 11:46:18 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Karnak
Urchin,

I think you're right about the Spit IX, but not the N1K2.  The +16lbs Boost Spit V doesn't really give anything up to the Spit IX at AH combat altitudes.  The N1K2 still has a huge ammo load and much better verticle performance.


Flyboy,

Why?  I just don't get that.  The N1K2 is so slow it is helpless and harmless.  The La-7 and it's ilk are far, far, far worse for gameplay than the N1K2 ever was.


What it basically comes down to is the arena is (or was) becoming more polarized than ever.  You have "fast" planes and you have "turny" planes, and that is it.  The best "fast" plane is the La7.  The best "turny" plane is the Spit 5.  The best (or most balanced) fighter, in my opinion, is the Spit 9.  However, the Spit 5 turns noticably better than the Spit 9/Niki, and the  performance is close enough to the Spit 9 in all other respects (niether plane is going to catch up to a "fast" plane that doesn't want to fight) that you don't really give anything up to get that extra turning performance.  

Now, a good Spit 9 pilot won't have any trouble beating up on a Spit 5, but an "average" Spit 5 pilot won't have any trouble beating up on an "average" Spit 9 pilot.  Now, the A6M turns even better than the Spit, but I don't think we'll ever see the A6M 'take over' as the #1 turny plane because it simply gives up to much firepower to the Spit 5.  

Similarly, if we ever get a plane that is faster, but less manueverable, than the La7 (better acceleration and top speed, but can't turn as well), I'd expect the La7 to be relegated to the proverbial dustbin, because all the La7 pilots will switch to the new plane.  As it is, 99% of the "dedicated" la7 pilots fly it because it can run away from every other plane in the MA, not because of its fantastic (for its speed anyway) manueverability.
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Offline Karnak

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The decline of the spit IX.
« Reply #12 on: August 23, 2004, 11:57:37 AM »
AH2's changes are also illustrative of why the RAF was so keen on the Merlin 66 Spit IXs and then the Merlin 66 at +25lbs Boost Spit IX while only 300 Merlin 61 Spit IXs like we have were built.
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Offline Mister Fork

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The decline of the spit IX.
« Reply #13 on: August 23, 2004, 12:19:58 PM »
With 150 oct fuel, you can do amazing things to Merlins :D
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Offline Dead Man Flying

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The decline of the spit IX.
« Reply #14 on: August 23, 2004, 12:29:36 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Urchin
Now, a good Spit 9 pilot won't have any trouble beating up on a Spit 5, but an "average" Spit 5 pilot won't have any trouble beating up on an "average" Spit 9 pilot.  Now, the A6M turns even better than the Spit, but I don't think we'll ever see the A6M 'take over' as the #1 turny plane because it simply gives up to much firepower to the Spit 5.  


While I agree that the Zeke will never supplant the Spit V/IX as the top "turny" plane, I disagree as to the reasons.  While the Zeke does give up some firepower to the Spit V/IX, it more importantly lacks high top speed and adequate high speed control.

The Spit V/IX can dive to incredible speeds, though their parasitic drag bleeds it off very quickly in level flight.  The Zeke can't get anywhere close in a steep dive.  In addition, the Spit V/IX allow for total (if sluggish) control at high speeds whereas the Zeke just stiffens up tightly.  I consider the Spit V/IX to be better overall planes by far.

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