Who was the spitfire pilot who....

[Howitzer]

Ok guys, I remember reading somewhere that there was a spitfire ace who flew the MK II, I could be wrong about that, I know he preferred 303s to the hispanos as he said the hispanos were unreliable, and after every flight, on the way home he used to buzz this clocktower to check the time.  The Germans picked up on this behavior, and waited for him one day, eventually shooting him down, and I believe he was KIA.   Has anyone else heard this story, and what was the guy's name?  For the life of me I can't think of it.

Thanks!

[frank3]

Im currently reading a particulary large book of the BoB (it might be a ace from that era?) I'll tell you when I read anything which matches your story

[Sable]

I know Douglas Bader preferred .303s to the 20mm and was flying a Mark Va (one of the few armed with only .303s) when he was shot down.  He was taken prisoner and briefly entertained by Adolf Galland and JG26 before being taken off to a pow camp.

[Howitzer]

Thanks Frank, I appreciate it.

Sable, do you remember anything about the clocktower?  That was the point that stood out the most to me when reading it.

Thanks again.

[Puck]

Originally posted by Sable
I know Douglas Bader preferred .303s to the 20mm and was flying a Mark Va (one of the few armed with only .303s) when he was shot down.  He was taken prisoner and briefly entertained by Adolf Galland and JG26 before being taken off to a pow camp.

Didn't the Germans allow safe passage to an RAF scout so they could drop a new set of legs for Bader in the POW camp?

[Charon]

I don't think the clocktower was the Bader story, though the .303/20mm part was Bader. I think he was just shot down in a dogfight.

Charon

[SELECTOR]

they took baders legs away from him eventualy to stop him trying to escape..

[SunKing]

Originally posted by frank3
Im currently reading a particulary large book of the BoB (it might be a ace from that era?) I'll tell you when I read anything which matches your story

Which book? I just finished.

[Guppy35]

Clarifying the Bader story.  He didn't like cannons.  Thought they made people shoot from too far out.  He was in a Spitfire Va when he went down.  He apparently collided with a 109 the cut off the fuselage of his Spit behind the cockpit.

He was stuck in the cockpit and for the only time appreciated his tin legs as he was able to break away from one of them and get out.

The Germans recovered the leg from the crash site and repaired it.  They sent word through the red cross that the RAF could have safe passage to bring replacement legs.  The RAF declined and  dropped them as part of a bombing raid, although they announced clearly over the radio that the legs were being dropped.  

Bader did try and escape and they did for a short time keep his legs from him.  He eventually ended up in the camp for 'naughty boys" at Colditz where he finished out the war.

As for the clock tower story, that doesn't fit Bader's story at all.  I'd not heard that one.

Dan/Slack

[Angus]

Bader actually escaped from hospital, but was "sold out" by a french nurse.

He escaped again from a POW camp, where his metal legs came in handy, when an angry German soldier hit him on the feet with a rifle butt

[Squire]

I beleive most of the pre war RAF pilots likr Bader, mistrusted cannons because of reliability issues. RAF pilots fired too far out with 303s in 1940, I dont think that was his opposition to the armament.

Im sure that the Spitfire IBs problems with the hispano 20mm in the BoB did little to change that view either by RAF squadron leaders. It wasnt untill mid 1941 that the hispano 20mm was viewed as a reliable weapon amongst many. Like all conservative organisations, air forces were slow to change, the RAF was no different. 303s were the tried and true (they just did the entire BoB campaign with them), and the 20mm was the unknown.

As for the clocktower story, never heard of it, but that wasn't Bader, I doubt he would have been so careless as to do something like that. He collided with a 109F and bailed out clean, minus one tin leg. He did indeed have dinner with Adolf Galland, and the two remained close friends after the war.

[ra]

I beleive most of the pre war RAF pilots likr Bader, mistrusted cannons because of reliability issues.

All RAF pilots disliked the early cannons because they were unreliable.

[Angus]

Victor Beamish thought they were just fine....

[Squire]

I understand that Robert Tuck also wanted cannon, and this was a point that he and Douglas Bader argued about when asked by the Air Ministry for their feedback. Of course with 20/20 hindsight we know that cannon was the right choice.

[Thrawn]

Originally posted by Howitzer
and after every flight, on the way home he used to buzz this clocktower to check the time.  The Germans picked up on this behavior, and waited for him one day, eventually shooting him down, and I believe he was KIA.   Has anyone else heard this story, and what was the guy's name?  For the life of me I can't think of it.

Thanks!

In this part you are referring to the famous British ace Captain Albert Ball, from WWI.

"Civilians and other military observers saw the rest, as Ball finished off the Albatros, his 44th victory. Ball emerged over the village of Annoeulin, where he had gotten into the habit of checking the time on a church tower clock. This evening he flew by and German gunners, hidden in the tower, brought him down. German propagandists tried to credit Ball's destruction to Lothar von Richthofen, but since the Red Baron's younger brother was on sick leave at the time, many have challenged that claim. (There are other versions of Ball's death, but the machine gunner in the clock tower is widely accepted.)"

http://www.acepilots.com/wwi/br_ball.html