Author Topic: Suicide diving level bombers  (Read 2930 times)

Offline Stang

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Suicide diving level bombers
« on: August 27, 2004, 12:59:01 PM »
It MUST be stopped.  I watched b26's and lancs repeatedly divebomb a cv last night while trying to defend it.  When the tards got shot down they just came right back and did it repeatedly until they finally sank the CV.  A typical run for them was climb to 3k, head straight for the flattop, dive in, drop eggs at 800 feet and BOOM!  Total lameness, IMO the biggest problem with gameplay in the MA.  CV steams for hours somewhere and the tards come out of the woodwork in 2 secs and do this.  HTC please fix the buff model so level bombers must drop their bombs while level.  There is a bombsite for a reason... actually pretty easy to use, takes about 2oz of brains to figgure out.  LEARN IT DWEEBS!  :mad:

Offline SlapShot

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Suicide diving level bombers
« Reply #1 on: August 27, 2004, 01:21:13 PM »
Now you've done it Stang.

The "well why don't you do a better job of protecting it" doodz are gonna be all over ya like white on rice.
SlapShot - Blue Knights

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Offline DoKGonZo

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Suicide diving level bombers
« Reply #2 on: August 27, 2004, 01:45:27 PM »
Not just at CV's ... I saw flight after flight of Lancs coming in at like 3K to some vehicle base on furball island. And it still took a couple tries for them to get the VH's.

Maybe just make the minimum fuse altitude 5000ft AGL for level bombers. Maybe THEN people would use torpedo bombers against ships.

Offline Furious

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Suicide diving level bombers
« Reply #3 on: August 27, 2004, 01:50:41 PM »
maybe...


....you should only be allowed X amount of ordinance within X minutes from the same base.

Offline Urchin

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Suicide diving level bombers
« Reply #4 on: August 27, 2004, 01:52:37 PM »
People are going to do everything the easiest way possible.  The entire idea is to resist having to learn how to do anything.  

I don't see this getting changed any time soon.. the 5 inch guns can do a reasonable job of protecting a CV from suicide buffs.

Offline mars01

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Suicide diving level bombers
« Reply #5 on: August 27, 2004, 01:56:31 PM »
Rgr that Stang - See the two carrier thread in General Discussion.

I agree.:aok

Offline Kweassa

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Suicide diving level bombers
« Reply #6 on: August 27, 2004, 04:50:12 PM »
Quote
The "well why don't you do a better job of protecting it" doodz are gonna be all over ya like white on rice.


 Wrong.

 This is quite different matter than just about the CV. It's a separate issue which must be addressed. I advocate proper protection of CV, and generally dismiss the claims that the CV is too weak. However, that doesn't mean that I do not notice certain circumstances which has become truly problematic due to repeated abuse from the players.

 I'd understand these deck-run buffs if it was just an occasional newbie who was desperate to shut down a CV or something. Or, if it was indeed a long, lonely NOE trip to hit a HQ or something.

 However, recent events have come to show that people are routinely attempting such deck-runs on a regular basis - it's not used as just a certain type of attack, but rather, it's replaced proper bombing  runs in its entirety.

 Proper bombing runs take skill and practice. Just as much as people have to learn ACM and BFM to survive in a fighter plane, a would-be bomber pilot needs experience and technique - at least, that's how it should be.

 However, the sad truth is the suicdal mentality coupled with unrealistic bomb-release mechanisms, have created hordes of people abusing bomber formations as oversized jabo machine.

 In order to  properly destroy FHs, the bomber pilot must take the time to grab alt, plan a careful course, face enemy interceptors if he has to, and try to land bombs right at the target.

 It is not an easy take, and it should not be. But in the MA, people nowadays make "missions" featuring 4~5 B-17/Lancaster formations running at NOE. Since its running at NOE it is usually undetected until too late. And the dorks arrive at the field, briefly pull up, and just spray the bombs everywhere and knock all FHs down. Sure, they'd be shot down. But who cares, the job's done, right?

 This kind of fault rewards dorks with higher success rates, rather than the people who really took time to learn buffs. Stupidity is promoted over and over again.

Offline Kweassa

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Suicide diving level bombers
« Reply #7 on: August 27, 2004, 05:04:55 PM »
My take on the fix:

1) internal bombload for level buffs will not be released if the plane's climb/decent rate is more than +/- 250ft per minute.

2) live bombs may be released only from the bombardier's position

3) bombs will be automatically "armed" only when the sight is calibrated

4) moving away from the bombardier's position, will "disarm" the bombs. Bombs released from other positions/views angles, will result in unarmed bombs - this way, if for any reason a buff has to dump ordnance, he will be able to do so. The bomb will not detonate.

 ...

 This way, people can still do deck-runs if they want to. However, they will have to spend as much time in the bombardier's postion, as other buff pilots must. They will be required to calibrate the sight, and then will have to drop at the bombardier's position, looking at the bombsight.

Offline Stang

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Suicide diving level bombers
« Reply #8 on: August 27, 2004, 05:09:30 PM »
Urchin you'll love this one... after I castigated the two guilty guys for doing it on ch 200, one of them ( who I had shot down doing the same thing at a different base 30min prior) replied, "Well how the hell else am I supposed to do it??"  LMAO!!  I replied, "Um, well, try climbing to at least 7k, calibrate the site, lead this ships and sink it?"  Didn't get a response back  I was saddened to see the other offender was a vet who I guess has just gotten tired of the gaminess of AH now and just said the hell with it and gave in and did it.  Sad, but I have a feeling a lot of vets feel this way when they see droves of tards doing this kind of dweebery.

Offline DoKGonZo

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Suicide diving level bombers
« Reply #9 on: August 27, 2004, 05:16:10 PM »
Make minimum fuse alt for level bombers be 5000 AGL, but at the same time add in a tactical bomb sight for the real Jabo planes (190F, A20, Mosi, Sturmi, Stuka, Val, Avenger, etc.). Oh ... and AP ammo for Sturmi and Hurri IID (had to get that in ...hehe).


Another thing occured to me ... does anyone know just how fast a WW2 fighter can go with bombs slung? I mean before the shackles give way. Likewise how many G's can it pull before the 1000 pounder dangling from the wing decides it's going to go it's own way?

I know this is a little off topic, but it is related - basically the planes now engaged in low-level field suppression aren't the planes that were built for the job.

--- edit ...

I like Kweassa's idea too.

I think what's becoming clear from this and the CV topic is that the whole surface attack part of the game needs to be tweaked. Torpedo bombers are unecessary as are dive bombers (since a P51 is just as accurate and a crap load faster), tactical bombers are no better than a Lanc because the extra payload more than makes up for the lack of skill. And so on ...
« Last Edit: August 27, 2004, 05:20:24 PM by DoKGonZo »

Offline MOSQ

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Suicide diving level bombers
« Reply #10 on: August 27, 2004, 06:05:54 PM »
I don't have a big problem with low level bomb runs. IRL, that's what the AAF did in the SW Pacific against Jap air bases. They even designed special bombs with fins and chutes to slow their descent so the B-25s wouldn't be downed by their own bomb explosions.  Of course these were night raids, otherwise the buffs would have been wiped out by the Zeros, so it's not a direct correlation, but close enough for me.

I DO have a problem with dive bombing B-17s and Lancs. That DWEEBERY has got to go.

I totally support a limitation that will not allow bombs to release if the decent rate of any level type bomber is greater than 250 FPM.

Offline Tilt

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Suicide diving level bombers
« Reply #11 on: August 27, 2004, 06:16:07 PM »
Level flight is already forced in F6 bombadiers position..........

when "formation" is selected

Arm bombs only after calibration (per Kweassa above)

Only enable release whilst in F6 (per Kweassa above)

Lose recalibration every time F6 is left (per Kweassa above)

Disable POV and external views when in F6.


The above would still allow some formation capable bombers with bomb sites to be used in their attack roles when formation has not been selected  (Boston, Ju88, B26 etc)

The 4 engined stuff is still anomalous as a non formation dive bomber (although far less effectively "gamed") unless they are forced  (by HTC) to always fly formation.

The above avoids coding it unto each ac it is coded  (latched)instead into the choice of formation flight..........
Ludere Vincere

Offline APDrone

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Suicide diving level bombers
« Reply #12 on: August 27, 2004, 07:26:41 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Kweassa

2) live bombs may be released only from the bombardier's position


Agreed.

Quote
Originally posted by Kweassa


3) bombs will be automatically "armed" only when the sight is calibrated


Agreed

Quote
Originally posted by Kweassa

4) moving away from the bombardier's position, will "disarm" the bombs. Bombs released from other positions/views angles, will result in unarmed bombs - this way, if for any reason a buff has to dump ordnance, he will be able to do so. The bomb will not detonate.

 
No..unless you don't have to re-calibrate to arm them.  If we are ever allowed to have more than one other gunner join us, I may rescind that.. but, for now, I need to be able to defend my butt while on final approach without having to worry about re-calibration. .  

Perhaps we can have a different base flash icon to indicate low bombers attacking. This will let us know that we can up our 110/190  cannon platforms and  tear into them willy-nilly.   I'm thinking a big bowl of ice-cream icon?  

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Offline GODO

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Suicide diving level bombers
« Reply #13 on: August 27, 2004, 08:26:40 PM »
Stang, CV has the point and click manned 88s, you simply cant aproach in jabos with manned ack there and survive to execute the attack, it is like turkey shot (you know, player xxx landed 23 kills in gun ship).

Why these cant just pick up fighters and set up CAP for the CV? It is much more easy to sit behind a gun, risking nothing, and ruining the fun of dozens of players flying nearby, just the same with low level Lanc formations, seasier then getting alt and using bomb sight, but at least, these were flying for several minutes to reach the target exposing themselves to enemy fighters, the tards behind the guns dont.

Offline Easyscor

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Suicide diving level bombers
« Reply #14 on: August 28, 2004, 02:00:31 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Tilt
Lose recalibration every time F6 is left (per Kweassa above)

Disable POV and external views when in F6.
No offense Tilt but these two are unreasonalble and anyone who spends much time in bombers would know it.
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