Author Topic: Question (Read 979 times)

Captain Virgil Hilts · « **on:** August 31, 2004, 08:05:59 AM »

Regarding the ENY system.

According to several posts, it is, or was, the stated position of the powers that be that two larger countries will always gang up on one smaller country. If this is indeed true, shouldn't the ENY system handicap BOTH larger countries? Or does it already?

hitech · « **Reply #1 on:** August 31, 2004, 08:08:39 AM »

The powers that be never said such a thing.

Captain Virgil Hilts · « **Reply #2 on:** August 31, 2004, 08:20:52 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by hitech
The powers that be never said such a thing.

I seem to remember you saying specifically in reply to me that the two larger countries will always attack the smaller country. I suppose I can find the example with a dedicated search.

The context was that I stated that "if two countries were more or less equal and only one was larger then the two countries that were smaller but equal they could attack a larger country hit with the ENY penalty with a serious advantage".

You then stated in reply that the "two smaller countires would not unite against the larger country, but rather one smaller country would turn on the other country and unite with the larger country."

Like I said, I could hunt down the thread I suppose. But it isn't really worth it.

shoppe · « **Reply #3 on:** August 31, 2004, 08:36:46 AM »

I thought that the ENY modifier DID affect both countries, relative to how many more players they had?

Shop

Captain Virgil Hilts · « **Reply #4 on:** August 31, 2004, 08:59:04 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by shoppe
I thought that the ENY modifier DID affect both countries, relative to how many more players they had?

Shop

It may in fact do so. I did not see evidence of it recently when I thought I might would have. Hence the question.

JB73 · « **Reply #5 on:** August 31, 2004, 09:02:48 AM »

from what i remember the ENY thing AND the perk multiplier was not designed to necessarily punish the "hordes" but to reward the lower country.

the thinking being, others will want those "rewards" and go to the country with the lesser numbers.

DREDIOCK · « **Reply #6 on:** August 31, 2004, 09:26:11 AM »

Actually I beleive the idea behond 3 countries is that the two smaller countries theoretically will gang up on the big country.

Unfortunately it rarely works this way.

typically the two larger countries gang on the 1 smalles country in a race for the reset.

Least thats been my observation

the Modifier is supposed to help create balance by limiting the type of uber planes the larger countries have
to help slow the horde from steamrolling.
Which also has been my observation doesnt work

A horde is a horde is a horde

Captain Virgil Hilts · « **Reply #7 on:** August 31, 2004, 10:09:59 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by JB73
from what i remember the ENY thing AND the perk multiplier was not designed to necessarily punish the "hordes" but to reward the lower country.

the thinking being, others will want those "rewards" and go to the country with the lesser numbers.

Taking something from one country does not "reward" another country. Giving something to the disadvantaged country would "reward" it. The ENY limit does not "reward" the smaller country, it penalizes the larger country. Lowering perk costs (which could be lowered far more drasticly as far as I'm concerned) "rewards" the smaller country.

I think it would have been better to make perk planes free up to the 262 for the smaller country, and make the 262 irresistably cheap. Make the 234 free as well. That would have been a real "reward" for the smaller country.

I don't think nearly so many will switch countries as will just continue on in different planes or log off.

Captain Virgil Hilts · « **Reply #8 on:** August 31, 2004, 10:16:34 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by DREDIOCK
Actually I beleive the idea behond 3 countries is that the two smaller countries theoretically will gang up on the big country.

Unfortunately it rarely works this way.

typically the two larger countries gang on the 1 smalles country in a race for the reset.

Least thats been my observation

the Modifier is supposed to help create balance by limiting the type of uber planes the larger countries have
to help slow the horde from steamrolling.
Which also has been my observation doesnt work

A horde is a horde is a horde

Agreed. It is a problem with the 3 country system that could not be solved by a 2 country system, and doubtfully by a 4 country system.

The ENY system has a problem because often the "middle" country takes part in the "gang" and pays little if any penalty in ENY limits. So the small country STILL suffers the "gang", and only sees the ENY limit as slightly helpful on one side.

I still say the solution to the horde mentality is more complex, because it deals with human nature.

I don't think the reset and 75 perks is the driving factor everyone thinks it is.

SlapShot · « **Reply #9 on:** August 31, 2004, 10:38:38 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
Taking something from one country does not "reward" another country. Giving something to the disadvantaged country would "reward" it. The ENY limit does not "reward" the smaller country, it penalizes the larger country. Lowering perk costs (which could be lowered far more drasticly as far as I'm concerned) "rewards" the smaller country.

I think it would have been better to make perk planes free up to the 262 for the smaller country, and make the 262 irresistably cheap. Make the 234 free as well. That would have been a real "reward" for the smaller country.

I don't think nearly so many will switch countries as will just continue on in different planes or log off.

If the lower country is down to 4-5 bases and the two larger countries are ganging for the reset, you can make all perk planes FREE and it won't amount to hill of beans.

Hordes of P-51s/La-7s will eat the 262s and 234s for lunch and any other perk planes before they could get up to speed or off the ground.

Why do people think that the 262 is the BIG equalizer ?

262s are completely USELESS for 98.99% of the MA population. Just because its a jet, doesn't mean that anybody who jumps in one will get mega-kills, it would be quite the opposite. It takes alot of skill to be proficient in a 262.

They might, and I stress MIGHT, get a couple of kills with the limited ammo load, and once the 262 tag is recognised, they won't last longer than 10 minutes in the air. If they do, they wouldn't have killed anybody unless someone is AFK because they will be too busy running from everybody and their brother who wants to land the 262 kill.

The ENY disabler is working, but it does need some more tweaking/changes.

Captain Virgil Hilts · « **Reply #10 on:** August 31, 2004, 10:46:32 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by SlapShot
If the lower country is down to 4-5 bases and the two larger countries are ganging for the reset, you can make all perk planes FREE and it won't amount to hill of beans.

Hordes of P-51s/La-7s will eat the 262s and 234s for lunch and any other perk planes before they could get up to speed or off the ground.

Why do people think that the 262 is the BIG equalizer ?

262s are completely USELESS for 98.99% of the MA population. Just because its a jet, doesn't mean that anybody who jumps in one will get mega-kills, it would be quite the opposite. It takes alot of skill to be proficient in a 262.

They might, and I stress MIGHT, get a couple of kills with the limited ammo load, and once the 262 tag is recognised, they won't last longer than 10 minutes in the air. If they do, they wouldn't have killed anybody unless someone is AFK because they will be too busy running from everybody and their brother who wants to land the 262 kill.

The ENY disabler is working, but it does need some more tweaking/changes.

The ENY limit offers VERY little to a country in the situation you describe. Little if anything will. Stopping the LA7 and P-51D certainly will not.

This is not about stopping a gang reset, nothing will do that if they are determined. This is about leveling the plane vs plane field when numbers are not level. Or do you feel perk rides are not as much better than the LA7 and the P-51D as the LA7 and the P-51D are better than planes with an ENY much lower?

The object was NOT the 262, but the other planes. It SHOULD make just as much difference as the ENY limit, provided the perk planes are really as much an advantage as they are purported to be and players take advantage of it. Players who seem to NEED the advantages provided by the LA7 and the P-51D should really get some help with free perk planes. And provided the country in question is not beyond hope and help, they can up their free or reduced cost perk planes a sector or two back and get speed and altitude. Just as much if not more an advatage as not seeing the P-51D and LA7, along with the Spit IX. Basicly, 20 ENY points is 20 ENY points, no matter how you go about getting the difference. The pilot will make or break the rest of the difference, regardless of the system.

The 262 is very little to me period. Unless I'm already engaged or damaged, or otherwise at a serious disadvantage, the 262 is mostly annoying, unless flown by an expert. Again, this is not about the 262.

twitchy · « **Reply #11 on:** August 31, 2004, 11:22:34 AM »

Lets get rid of the ENY rubbish, if your outnumbered and can't play the game that way, log off adn come back when the numbers readjust. Folks, sometimes the enemy has superior numbers. Telling us what planes we can fly is not solving anything, actually its ticking alot of us off. Jesus are the perk multipliers not enough (there are people getting 160 perks for a single kill now)?! When Germany invaded Russia, Germany was outnumbered, did they stop because of that? Was there some great omnipotent source that stepped in and forced the russians to fight in donkey carts? No, they sucked it up and fought till germany was exhausted and others stepped in. War is hell, war sims are hell sometimes too. If you are outnumbered, IMO that is tough, sometimes the other teams get outnumbered too. Get over it in other words, lets quit ruining everyone elses game play cause you don't like the #'s. They balance out in time any way, they always have, they always will. Rooks have numbers one night, knights have them the next. The next time I have to defend a base against cheap tigers in a m8, I'll probably log off.

Karnak · « **Reply #12 on:** August 31, 2004, 12:08:34 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by twitchy
Lets get rid of the ENY rubbish, if your outnumbered and can't play the game that way, log off adn come back when the numbers readjust.

So you're saying I should cancel my account or move to the horde country?

Nice.

That'll solve all the problems.

twitchy · « **Reply #13 on:** August 31, 2004, 12:17:34 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Karnak
So you're saying I should cancel my account or move to the horde country?

Nice.

That'll solve all the problems.

Uh no I said,

Originally posted by twitchy
Lets get rid of the ENY rubbish, if your outnumbered and can't play the game that way, log off adn come back when the numbers readjust.

SlapShot · « **Reply #14 on:** August 31, 2004, 12:20:15 PM »

or how about this ...

Lets KEEP the ENY rubbish, if your over-numbered and can't play the game that way, log off and come back when the numbers readjust.

Sounds good to me.