Author Topic: Black Thursday(Mission Night)  (Read 727 times)

Offline TheBug

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Black Thursday(Mission Night)
« on: August 31, 2004, 07:02:47 PM »
From USAF Museum website:

The 8th Air Force attack of October 14, 1943, against the ball bearing factories at Schweinfurt, Germany resulted in the greatest air battle in history. Through the years since that date, it has become known as "Black Thursday" in Air Force history because of the very heavy losses of men and planes.

For hundreds of miles inbound to the target area, the B-17 bomber formations were attacked again and again by untold numbers of enemy fighters of the German Luftwaffe. Despite the horrible spectacle of B-17 after B-17 falling earthward to destruction, those bombers still able to fly never wavered from their course.

After "Bombs Away," the AAF planes turned off the target and headed westward for England and their bases. Almost immediately the German fighters, having landed and refueled, struck again, forcing the American planes once more to fight for their survival as they had done inbound to the target area.

Finally, the B-17s reached the coastline of Europe and relative safety, although many of them were so heavily damaged that they would never fly again.

In the final tally, Headquarters 8th Air Force reported that 251 B-17s had departed on the mission, 60 had failed to return, 5 had crashed in England because of battle damage, 12 had to be scrapped because of crash landings or battle damage, and 121 had to be repaired before being flown again. Even worse, 600 men were lost over enemy territory, and there were 5 dead and 43 wounded flyers in the B-17s that did return.


Was thinking of making the LW be the attackers this week, but decided I couldn't pass this one up.

This weeks mission will be an UNESCORTED B17 mission to a target deep in LW territory.

I will lay out the flight plan Wednesday night, email me if your are interested in receiving it beforehand, although it will be something easily communicated Thursday night.

Mission start is scheduled for 10pm Thursday night.  All Allied pilots participating will be expected to be flying B17s and we will all form over England into a combat box before proceeding to target.

It will be the Luftwaffe's responsibility to protect their crucial industries.

All are welcome to join in on either side, but I hope to field enough B17 formations to make it interesting.

I will post a starting field and Comms channel by 9:45 on the Allied country channel.

Look forward to seeing you guys out there.  These large B17 mission always make for a very interesting night.
“It's a big ocean, you don't have to find the enemy if you don't want to."
  -Richard O'Kane

Offline Slash27

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Black Thursday(Mission Night)
« Reply #1 on: August 31, 2004, 07:40:28 PM »
Sounds like a winner. Ill be there to help with whatever you need.

storch

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Black Thursday(Mission Night)
« Reply #2 on: August 31, 2004, 08:44:19 PM »
Bug, If you want you can have fighter escort as far as Holland in the P47s both on the way out and on the return trip because that was what was actually available in 1943.

Offline B17Skull12

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Black Thursday(Mission Night)
« Reply #3 on: August 31, 2004, 08:51:59 PM »
bomber yuck, wont be there bombers hurt fps to much.
II/JG3 DGS II

Offline SmokinSS

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Black Thursday(Mission Night)
« Reply #4 on: August 31, 2004, 08:53:47 PM »
Wish I wasn't working Thursday. This one sounds like great fun.

Hope everyone has a great time.
Robert

Offline TheBug

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Black Thursday(Mission Night)
« Reply #5 on: August 31, 2004, 09:19:36 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by storch
Bug, If you want you can have fighter escort as far as Holland in the P47s both on the way out and on the return trip because that was what was actually available in 1943.


Just to emphasize the Black Thursday theme I think no outbound escort, but as B17 pilots go down they should join as a gunner or roll a P47 as egress cover.
“It's a big ocean, you don't have to find the enemy if you don't want to."
  -Richard O'Kane

storch

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Black Thursday(Mission Night)
« Reply #6 on: September 01, 2004, 08:14:04 AM »
Hey Arlo are you going to do your banner thing and post in the General discussion BB?

Offline Arlo

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Black Thursday(Mission Night)
« Reply #7 on: September 01, 2004, 12:34:45 PM »
Banner is static now. Saves HT staff the trouble of changing it and me the heartburn of not being able to submit one until the eleventh hour and not seeing it up until Monday .... but that's beside the point.

Sure ... I'll be fixing the TFT page again. But I wished I'd made a suggestion I'd been thinking about for awhile now and thats:

Thursday mission night should always incorporate 2 missions. An offensive mission for the Allies and an offensive mission for the Axis.

Set it up in an attack/counter-attack format. Either with one side receiving intel on an the enemy plans and planning to run a counter-attack while the enemy is conducting theirs or a 1-2 setup where one side runs their attack and the second side sets up for a counter-attack as soon as they either successfully defend or regroup after their losses.

This keeps things from stagnating with one side or the other stuck in the same old role week after week. The axis end of mission night has been "up, grab, intercept the buffs before they blow by, take out fighters if only they pose a threat" ad infinitum. Heh.

Offline Arlo

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Black Thursday(Mission Night)
« Reply #8 on: September 01, 2004, 12:49:18 PM »
Done.

Offline TheBug

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Black Thursday(Mission Night)
« Reply #9 on: September 01, 2004, 06:57:32 PM »
Arlo,

I can't say that I  disagree with you that the Allied bombers attacking and Axis interceptors runs quite the risk of becoming stagnant fast.  But I'm just not certain that running two missions every week would be the answer.  Seems like a lot of overhead for the number we usually have on Thursday night in the CT.

I'm one that believes in simple plans and spreading everybody out over multiple missions will add confusion and dilute the fun.  But I still would be interested in hearing your idea in a bit more detail.

So far the missions have been an attempt to keep in theme with the setup and I had really planned to make the Axis be the aggressor this week, but I really couldn't pass up the Schweinfurt raid.  Trying to keep it historical it's hard to make the LW be the attacker in day ops in this setup.

The stagnation of the missions are in direct relation to the stagnation in setups(not blaming anyone here keep your panties on I realize the maps and planeset are very limited at the time).

Maybe we can get a couple Africa '41, BoB or Barbarossa setups where the LW can be the aggressor to mix things up.  But for the numbers we have I just don't see spreading the forces amongst multiple objectives.  Also the Axis usually needs backup in numbers, having them be the bombers isn't gonna help in drawing players.

I hear what you are saying and acknowledge the problem just not sure on the fix.
“It's a big ocean, you don't have to find the enemy if you don't want to."
  -Richard O'Kane

Offline Arlo

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Black Thursday(Mission Night)
« Reply #10 on: September 02, 2004, 06:01:19 PM »
Hey, Bug .... I took the liberty of setting up the bomber intercept mission. I've got the file ready. 32 slots. Can be edited at the last minute if neccesary. This way, I figure, we can set the interceptor takeoff time for 10 or 15 minutes after the Allied bombers take off.

Offline TheBug

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Black Thursday(Mission Night)
« Reply #11 on: September 02, 2004, 06:07:50 PM »
Excellent Arlo!  

Thanks and good luck
“It's a big ocean, you don't have to find the enemy if you don't want to."
  -Richard O'Kane

Offline Arlo

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Black Thursday(Mission Night)
« Reply #12 on: September 02, 2004, 10:46:11 PM »
Sorry I was late. Got the mission posted at the absolute last possible second (ya'll were already formed up over England). We upped from four coastal bases in France and ran racetrack patterns between those bases looking for where you'd cross the French coast.

Units were a bit scattered ... some fell back toward the refinery (the suspected target) when you reached the coastline. Those units flew back toward the coast or north at recommendation. I'm not sure what the tally of losses is on the LW side. I lost my engine to a single B-17 flying lower than the pack. Was able to rtb but slid off the runway with one gear deployed. Many landed multiple kills.

Hope some of you made it there.

Suggested guidelines for future bomber interceptors in such scenarios:

Since we don't limit lives in the CT .....

Reup only from a base you land, ditch or bail at. If you land intact you may refuel or replane. If you ditch, you may replane with whatever plane or vehicle is available at that base. If you bail .... better hope you're within walking distance. If not .... maybe you should consider not pulling the ripcord and doing the following:

Dying. And since we don't limit lives, I'd say reup from the original field you took off from in whatever's available at that field.

No way to enforce it - it would have to be an honor system ... but I think it makes for at least a lil more realism.

Bug ... valiant effort you and yours tonight.

Offline Squire

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Black Thursday(Mission Night)
« Reply #13 on: September 02, 2004, 10:54:41 PM »
They really do need to fix the drones...sheesh. Too many lost in our group just on climbout. Was good fun still. Thumbs up.
Warloc
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Online Oldman731

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Black Thursday(Mission Night)
« Reply #14 on: September 03, 2004, 07:14:37 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Arlo
We upped from four coastal bases in France and ran racetrack patterns between those bases looking for where you'd cross the French coast.

This was a lot of fun, even given my abbreviated time in combat.  Congrats to those who arranged and flew it.

- oldman