Author Topic: Turn the friendly fire off! (Read 1546 times)

Captain Virgil Hilts · « **Reply #45 on:** September 01, 2004, 08:25:19 PM »

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Originally posted by FiLtH
I like those ideas about either a couple pings could go by ok but a sustained burst would affect the shooter, or just turn off the guns much like the stick stir control freeze does.

Dred Im all set on the SA advice thanks. You think I just fell off the turnip truck?...I used to drive that f*&kin thing!

This is not directed at Drediok, or anyone else in particular.

Just a little FYI. FiLtH has been in flight sims for about 7 or 8 YEARS that I know of. He ain't no Johnny come lately, and he ain't no spray and pray noob either. He's a pretty damned good stick.

Kind of gets on my nerves to hear people who disagree with certain things here talked to in a somewhat condescending manner and assumed to be fools or noobs. Maybe people should think and ask a little more and ASSume a little less.

6GunUSMC · « **Reply #46 on:** September 01, 2004, 08:34:58 PM »

Killshooter is probably the single worst feature of this game. I have been killed too many times by dweebs cutting in on me. Like many other things in this game it is great - in theory - but sucks in reality.

Captain Virgil Hilts · « **Reply #47 on:** September 01, 2004, 08:36:45 PM »

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Originally posted by SlapShot

I am D200 off someone's 6 and just about to get a guns solution when you decide to start shooting over my shoulder. While you are shooting over my shoulder, you hit me ... I should be damaged because your a fool ... I don't think so !!!

Yeah, and what about me being D200 to D400 of a con I've been working for 2-3 minutes and now have a firing solution on, and as I pull the trigger, some putz drops in front of me and I die? THIS is how I die from killshooter, I do not shoot over peoples shoulders. And explain to me how fair this is. Oh, by the way, I'm not a noob by any stretch. But I am partially DEAF, so it is often hard to hear the engine or guns of another plane.

Dead Man Flying · « **Reply #48 on:** September 01, 2004, 09:18:20 PM »

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Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts Yeah, and what about me being D200 to D400 of a con I've been working for 2-3 minutes and now have a firing solution on, and as I pull the trigger, some putz drops in front of me and I die? THIS is how I die from killshooter, I do not shoot over peoples shoulders

If you continue to die in this manner to killshooter, then it suggests a systematic problem at your end. First, you're firing from too far away if people can "drop" in front of you. Second, you appear to lack awareness of the position of friendlies around you. Killshooter effectively rewards those who kill in close and who demonstrate total situational awareness; it penalizes those who do not.

So it's not just a matter of whether you shoot over shoulders or have people "drop" in on you, since these both indicate tactical failures rather than gameplay errors.

-- Todd/Leviathn

Grimm · « **Reply #49 on:** September 01, 2004, 09:53:10 PM »

Ill Second that Filth is far from a Noob. He has opinions about KS and is voicing them. ::Shrug::

Personaly if I get caught by KS its when Im trying to clear an enemy off a friendly bomber. Ill try to hit him and cause him to break or just out right kill and a I miss and hit the bomber.

Its been a long time since I was KillShootered.

Better yet was the day that Father Oddball was flying with a returning Vet from the squad. He kept explaining to him that Kill shooter was turned off and you could actualy frag a friendly. Well, he finally convinced his quarry and suckered him into to Testing Kill Shooter. He was laughing his butt off when our squadie kill shootered himself.

Sox62 · « **Reply #50 on:** September 01, 2004, 10:17:19 PM »

The only time I've ever died to killshooter is when I'm running someone down,and someone else blows directly through me with a ton of smash right as I open fire.In three years this has been a total of maybe 4-5 times.

After seeing what happened when there was no killshooter in AW(pre AW3),I'd rather see it stay.

A warning;if I'm shooting at someone and you're shooting over my shoulder,I WILL jink into your tracers.

Captain Virgil Hilts · « **Reply #51 on:** September 02, 2004, 08:26:57 AM »

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Originally posted by Dead Man Flying
If you continue to die in this manner to killshooter, then it suggests a systematic problem at your end. First, you're firing from too far away if people can "drop" in front of you. Second, you appear to lack awareness of the position of friendlies around you. Killshooter effectively rewards those who kill in close and who demonstrate total situational awareness; it penalizes those who do not.

So it's not just a matter of whether you shoot over shoulders or have people "drop" in on you, since these both indicate tactical failures rather than gameplay errors.

-- Todd/Leviathn

Big surprise here.

It's all my fault.

Thanks.

Killshooter also effectively rewards the loser who steals kills by cutting in after someone else has worked to gain advantage and a firing solution, and it penalizes the guy who did all the work. But you can deny that all you want.

Have a nice day.

Dead Man Flying · « **Reply #52 on:** September 02, 2004, 08:37:03 AM »

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Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
It's all my fault.

[/B]

Yes, it is. Blame the other guy for stealing your kill but accept the fact that you screwed up by killshootering yourself on him. Whether he planned it or not, you should demonstrate the awareness to keep it from happening.

Ask yourself why it is that some people killshooter themselves frequently while others do not. Does this indicate a problem with killshooter or with something that the frequent killshooters do incorrectly? It's obvious that you can "learn" to avoid killshooting yourself.

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Killshooter also effectively rewards the loser who steals kills by cutting in after someone else has worked to gain advantage and a firing solution, and it penalizes the guy who did all the work. But you can deny that all you want.

[/b]

Did you miss what I wrote? Get in closer so people can't cut in front of you. Otherwise accept that it can happen and chalk it up to players being kill-hungry kill stealers perhaps. Blaming killshooter for your dying to such behavior, however, is just silly. You are in complete control of killshooter whether you admit it or not.

-- Todd/Leviathn

SlapShot · « **Reply #53 on:** September 02, 2004, 08:41:06 AM »

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Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
Yeah, and what about me being D200 to D400 of a con I've been working for 2-3 minutes and now have a firing solution on, and as I pull the trigger, some putz drops in front of me and I die? THIS is how I die from killshooter, I do not shoot over peoples shoulders. And explain to me how fair this is. Oh, by the way, I'm not a noob by any stretch. But I am partially DEAF, so it is often hard to hear the engine or guns of another plane.

The occurences of the "drop-in", especially at D200, is far less than the occcurences of those "over-the-shoulder" shooters.

I could bet the ranch on the fact that if killshooter was shut off, I would sustain more deaths/damage to "over-the-shoulder" shooters vs those that "drop-in".

I do get the "drop-in" doodz occasionally, but I have conditioned myself to hold off/stop shooting when another plane enters my field of view. This doesn't work 100% of the time, but I can live with 99.9%.

Rolex · « **Reply #54 on:** September 02, 2004, 08:44:58 AM »

I don't think we're in complete control. How about this example:

I spend the time to climb to a reasonable alt in lancs with the intent to help take down most of a town in 2 passes. I drop from 12k AGL and a friendly zooms in on the town on the deck and my bombs hit his aircraft. I'm dead instantly (with all 3 planes in formation).

Masherbrum · « **Reply #55 on:** September 02, 2004, 08:53:15 AM »

Filth,

I'd add 100-150 kills a tour if this were off. I'm personally tired of people swooping down to 100 in front of me, when I am 200 away (not playing with my food) and ready to pull the trigger. You really want it to stay the same.

Karaya

Dead Man Flying · « **Reply #56 on:** September 02, 2004, 09:15:21 AM »

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Originally posted by Rolex
I don't think we're in complete control. How about this example:

That's an extreme example, but you are correct. However, a scenario like this does not exist in the air to air combat scenarios described above.

-- Todd/Leviathn

JuGGy · « **Reply #57 on:** September 02, 2004, 12:54:22 PM »

hmmm filth you play ww2ol??

mechanic · « **Reply #58 on:** September 02, 2004, 01:08:18 PM »

tunr killshooter off??

and have my fighter stats, and/or 5 kills from a good sortie destroyed by any newb who wants to test his guns on me?

NO THANKS.

now, friendly collisions, employed 1 minute after take off would be fun. although equally anoying with newbs around.

phookat · « **Reply #59 on:** September 02, 2004, 01:30:03 PM »

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Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
Killshooter also effectively rewards the loser who steals kills by cutting in after someone else has worked to gain advantage and a firing solution

That is not stealing kills. Stealing kills is when someone shoots a falling carcass. It is silly to think that it is your "right" to get a kill when you "did all the work". First of all, the presence of the other plane adversely affects the target's response, so you cannot claim that you alone killed him. But more importantly, this is the MA, not the DA. Multiple planes are part of the game. If you get frustrated that others are getting "your" kills, then learn to kill more quickly.

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Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
and it penalizes the guy who did all the work.

No it doesn't. It penalizes the guy who stays on the trigger despite seeing a plane in front if him. _Occasionally_ it will happen by accident, but if it is happening to you a lot then I suggest that you are staying on the trigger because of your frustration that someone is taking "your" kill, despite clearly seeing a friendly in front of you.

I admit that this is less of a problem for me, becuase I generally close to d150 before taking a shot. But sometimes I do take long shots with MGs. If I see a friendly in front of me, I stop shooting. It's pretty simple.