Author Topic: The Second Part of numbers imbalance (Read 1303 times)

Simaril · « **on:** September 01, 2004, 07:31:19 AM »

Several weeks into the ENY balancer, and I've noticed a couple things:

First, the overall numbers SEEM a bit more balanced, except for sunday nights;

Second, the swings in numbers seem to have stabilized at a still somewhat umbalanced level;

Third, that the overall MA numbers seem consistently and significantly down (an indicator of dissatisfaction?).

_________________________

I still hear vehement gripes on the rook side Sunday nights, and while the whining doesnt interest me, the motivations behind the whines do. I hear people complaining essentially that they're being forced into a choice between flying with their friends, and flying the planes they like. Since I prefer higher ENY mounts anyway, the crate limitations dont impact me -- but I really understand the point about flying with friends.

I suspect this frustration, coupled with an oft-repeated complaint that AH2 "doesnt play the same" (i dont get this one -- but anyway), likely explain the significant drop in numbers.

HT, when the ENY modifier was under discussion, you several times said that other plans boiled down to "wanting somebody else to switch." I think you're right -- but the reason people wnated somebody else to switch was a VERY important one.

People want to fly with friends.

You can argue that they'll make new friends on other countries, but its kinda like the kid being forced to move to a new school -- yeah, it'll eventually work out, but what kid in his right mind wants to leave his best buds? Left to the kids, they'd choose to stay in the old neighborhood with the smaller house.

The AH community is theoretically made up of mature adults, but we still want to hang woth our buds, and now WE get to choose.

Given a no win choice, some folks will just walk away.

_____________________________ ________

I would strongly advise against any move that directly or indirectly threatens the relationships people have developed in AH. I'd suggest that if further rebalancing is needed, you just shunt all newbies to the smallest country. Inertia will keep most of them in the same country they start with, and over time the problem will be solved.

Shane · « **Reply #1 on:** September 01, 2004, 07:51:17 AM »

actually isn't this only the middle of the 3rd week of the eny thingy?

several: Being of a number more than two or three but not many.

just sayin'

i'm sure HT is giving consideration to the ENY thingy and in all likelihood will tweak it in some manner.

I'm hoping for:

a) raising arena # kick-in to 350+
b) factoring out perk planes from it
c) perhaps having an ENY cutoff of 20 or so

Curval · « **Reply #2 on:** September 01, 2004, 08:08:04 AM »

I have only faced the inability to fly a plane I want to fly once.

I have to admit that I can understand why some people don't like it.

Baine · « **Reply #3 on:** September 01, 2004, 08:21:59 AM »

It's funny you mention the game "not playing the same" as AH.
I was thinking about it last night when I logged off, but I just don't seem to enjoy AHII as much as good ol AH.
Some of it is probably due to my machine. Even with an Athlon 2400, a 64 meg video card and 512 megs of Ram framerates are a real issue and only seem to be getting worse. The last map, with its profusion of trees had my poor machine crying for mercy. Updating drivers doesn't seem to help. As I said before, probably a hardware issue, but still a source of frustration.
I also just think AHII is uglier than AH. Probably just a matter of personal taste, but there it is.
I also find I can't hit the broad side of a barn these days (something I'm hoping will change over time) and that planes fly a lot funkier than they did in the past. (My La7 and 109s tend to stop in midair for a fraction of a second when the slats kick in). I hope these things eventually get better.
Also, my connection just hasn't been the same since the AHII switch.
BTW, did I mention that I suspect AHII killed Kennedy and was never on a Swift boat?
The eny thing only affects me on squad night, when I try to fly B-17s and get stuck flying Lancs. But at those times, when I'm being swarmed by "outnumbered" enemies flying late war rides and losing parts of my skanky British plane faster than I'm losing hair I find myself thinking that things aren't nearly as much fun as they once were.

Alpo · « **Reply #4 on:** September 01, 2004, 09:15:34 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Shane

i'm sure HT is giving consideration to the ENY thingy and in all likelihood will tweak it in some manner.

I'm hoping for:

a) raising arena # kick-in to 350+
b) factoring out perk planes from it
c) perhaps having an ENY cutoff of 20 or so

Speaking of ENY, how is that "magic" number determined? For instance, a B17 has an ENY of 15. Does that mean it's as capable of killing as a P38? (if I remember the ENY of the 38 correctly)

Shane · « **Reply #5 on:** September 01, 2004, 09:28:31 AM »

ENY values are entirely subjective and subject to change, determined by HT(C) based on various factors such as overall useage, relative performances, ordnance otions, addition of new planes, "rarity factor," updated FM info, etc. or even "just because."

Alpo · « **Reply #6 on:** September 01, 2004, 09:54:41 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Shane
or even "just because."

I was wondering...

ET · « **Reply #7 on:** September 01, 2004, 11:29:57 PM »

The kick in # is 140. This gives no help in the early morning hours of EST time when your country has 10 people and the other 2 have 20 each and it always seems like they have called a truce with each other.
Later on, when it's 40-80-80 the ENY has kicked in. Same odds.
Maybe it should be on all the time until total people has reached 400 or 500 and then kicked out.

Grimm · « **Reply #8 on:** September 02, 2004, 12:25:57 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Baine
Even with an Athlon 2400, a 64 meg video card and 512 megs of Ram framerates are a real issue and only seem to be getting worse.

Baine,

You sound like you have a software problem. I have a PII 450 that runs AH with marginal frames, I have it runing on a AMD 1.2ghz getting Frames in the 60s. My game box is only a AMD 2.4 and It holds at 75fps.

Your Video card isnt state of the art, but it should work OK.

My guess is your system is junked up with spyware and crap that runs in the background sucking up all your resources. Ill bet if you did a complete reinstall of windows and all lastest drivers that box would be working good. (Sorry about the Hijack)

Blammo · « **Reply #9 on:** September 02, 2004, 01:15:39 PM »

I am just waiting for this thread to be locked. After all, hasn't the eny balancing topic already been discussed in a thread?

But to the point of your thread...I completely agree. If I ever log on and can't fly what I want to fly for the side I want to fly for, I will log off. If it happens enough, I will log for sure (but what does that matter...I am only $14.95 a month, right?)

Anyway, I love the game, I really like the people @ HTC and I especially like the people I fly with and against. to you all! Just wish HTC would stop mucking with piddly stuff like this and focus on the big issues (bugs, new planes, etc).

SFCHONDO · « **Reply #10 on:** September 02, 2004, 02:38:11 PM »

Well from what I read, see and hear in here or in the game. 85%+ of the players do not like this new ENY system. Think most would rather put up with unbalanced sides (outside of Sundays for a few hours, I don't see a major balance problem) than put up with the ENY system. It rearly effects me since I rearly, if ever fly lala's spits or nikis. To me it would make the game a lot more enjoyable if HT dumped this system. Ofcourse I do like it when my country is outnumbered and don't have to fight all those lala's spits and nikis...LOL...but i would rather have the community happy, which in turn makes the game more enjoyable for all.

Simaril · « **Reply #11 on:** September 02, 2004, 05:11:04 PM »

My main thrust was intended to be about the primacy of community, not the ENY system itself. I think even if the numbers didnt shift due to the ENY, the system has value as a way to play balance the numbers disparity.

Most players really care about their online realtionships, and disrupting them is very like asking a kid to move to a new neighborhood. That reality hit home as I listened to the complaints, and I didnt think the issue ahd been framed quite that way in previous discussions.

I'm suggesting that we may not see further rebalancing form the ENY, because those that value plane choice over current relationships ahve already moved. Those still on the high # teams are going to stick it out because they value their stronger relationships more than the plane choice.

That doesnt mean they'll be happy about being forced into that choice, and if they may remain chronically frustrated by what they see as a no win situation.

My suggestion to preferentially steer new sign ons away from the higher numbered team, wothout restriciting switches, could rebalance through inertia -- and help resolve the "no win" feeling that poisons the air on Sundays and other high times.

Like I said, i dont fly low ENY planes, so the issue is moot for me. I jsut see the numbers lower than they were before summer, and wonder if others feel differently....

acetnt367th · « **Reply #12 on:** September 02, 2004, 05:45:04 PM »

Reassigning new signons has been tried - they do not help the balance. They are just learning how to manage with the game and do not shift the balance.

The new system, while not perfect, is an attempt to fix the numbers imbalance and I applaud the effort. I certainly don't think 85% disagree with the eny numbers but since I didn't poll the community I will leave this comment alone.

I like my friends (squad) online that is true, and believe it or not, my squad does not have a problem switching sides (and has done this) to even the numbers. We also don't complain when we are faced with a reduced plane set.

Will this topic ever go away - one thinks not.

Acetnt

Simaril · « **Reply #13 on:** September 02, 2004, 06:57:03 PM »

I think you're confusing play balance with numbers balance. The ENY modifier does alter the play balance, and to some degree has also modified the numbers balance.

Newbies do not impact play balance to any meaningful degree -- but in 3 months they might. They do affect numbers balance, however, and if the random assignment of newbies was made nonrandom then over the course of a few months the numbers would even out more than if things were left completely random.

Also please note that I do not favor removing the ENY system. I merely think that we've seen all the effect we're going to see from it, adn that 1) the numbers are still imbalanced, while 2) people still on the high side are unhappy but unwilling to shift because of the friendhip effect.

In fact, your squads willingness to move together reinforces my thesis more than it opposes it. At this point, people are likely to move as social units only.

Murdr · « **Reply #14 on:** September 03, 2004, 12:56:12 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Shane

i'm sure HT is giving consideration to the ENY thingy and in all likelihood will tweak it in some manner.

I'm hoping for:

I still like the idea of the ENY degree of limit being tied to a fields distance from HQ. It would take care of some issues regarding B17s, country with most numbers rallying after being cornered, and "I should be able to fly when I want to". I would think that opponents of the ENY system would like that modification, but I guess they want a mile, and and think an inch is beneath them.