The Camp of the La7

[Kweassa]

Plain right DMF it's more fun to fight a LA7 that stay in than a bore and zoom plane.

 It's also more easier to kill them, than those who actually try to leave the battlefield alive.

 Now, imagine one day all the bozos and noobs suddenly realized that their plane had the ability to disengage at will and whim. I'll be holding the stopwatch and count the seconds until people started whining.

 Face it guys. It's the pilot you guys have 'no problems' with. The plane itself, provided a decent pilot is in it, we all have a big problem with.

[Dead Man Flying]

Originally posted by Kweassa Now, imagine one day all the bozos and noobs suddenly realized that their plane had the ability to disengage at will and whim. I'll be holding the stopwatch and count the seconds until people started whining.

[/b]

You wouldn't hear me whining.  I would simply find them less interesting to fight and more difficult to kill.  I don't think they would become more deadly however.

Face it guys. It's the pilot you guys have 'no problems' with. The plane itself, provided a decent pilot is in it, we all have a big problem with.

That's only partially true.  You're enforcing the fallacy that the La-7 outperforms all other planes in all areas.  We know that this is simply not true.  I think it has the best balance of killing ability and survivability in the MA, but other planes may play to their strengths to at least neutralize it.  I've fought plenty of excellent pilots in La-7s (Shane, Grunherz, BigMax, etc) and done alright.  It doesn't always come down to pilot skill when facing an La-7.  Think of it more as a game of rock-paper-scissors.

-- Todd/Leviathn

[Tilt]

Originally posted by Kweassa
It's also more easier to kill them, than those who actually try to leave the battlefield alive.

 Now, imagine one day all the bozos and noobs suddenly realized that their plane had the ability to disengage at will and whim. I'll be holding the stopwatch and count the seconds until people started whining.

The plane itself, provided a decent pilot is in it, we all have a big problem with.

Bozos and noobs cant disengage at will and whim in any plane or else the arena would be full of 262's no matter what the perk cost..........

We all give up options as we commit our selves or increase the degree of aggresion they that keep options open, fly cautiously or "timidly" do so in any ac and it will return those options to varying degrees................


I am not sure of the context of "we all have a big problem with"

I have no problem "big or little" with the La7 and I would warrant that the majority of actual players do not either..............

I know which plane types are used to HO me most and none of them are the La7...............

I know which plane types are used to play BnZ agin me (from a safe alt adavantage) most and none of them are La7's

I know which planes I fear most in a turn fight and none of them are the La7

I know which plane type stands the best chance of disengaging.......it is the La7

Yet this is not any problem.

In the first 3 options "I lose" in the last I merely do not get the kill.

[Shane]

Originally posted by Kweassa
Now, imagine one day all the bozos and noobs suddenly realized that their plane had the ability to disengage at will and whim. I'll be holding the stopwatch and count the seconds until people started whining.

like fw190d-9's, ponys, 109g10's even la5's and yak9u's don't have the same ability to pretty much disengage at will? even tiffys can get going fairly fast.

oh you mean they can't disengage at will from an la-7?  sure they can if they time it right, the la-7 is gonna take time to run them down, time enough to scream for help, make it to friendly ack, or even drag far enough away to be able to take the la-7 on alone.

any of the above listed planes can take on an la-7 alone and have an even chance of winning the engagement. more than even if the la-7 pilot is only "average" and the other is a better pilot. at worst the la-7 will end up running.

i've chased enough planes to know that the la-7 isn't going to instantly catch up.

[mars01]

Wipe the potato peeling Tears.  Looking at my stats who cares about the LA7.  It's not that uber.  Out of 188 deaths I only died at the hands of an LA7 10 times.  I only killed 17 so wow in 40 hours I ran into 27 LA7s  Woe is me lolh.  Considering in the same amount of time I ran into 48 51s, 34 38s, 42 spit IXs, and 38 NIKIs I think the LA7 is a non issue

I really enjoy fighting La-7s over P-51s, 190s, Typhoons, or other speedy adversaries. They allow for a great degree of aggressiveness without fear, so La-7 pilots tend to fly more aggressively in general. Win or lose, I much prefer that to dodging yawn-inducing BnZ for 15 minutes.

That's a good thing in my book. I'm glad it's around and unperked.

Ahmen Brother, considering just about all the 51s I was killed by were cherry picking runers I couldn't agree more.


                     Killed By
Spitfire Mk IX 20
P-51D            16  
Spitfire V        12  
N1K2              11
Panzer IV H    11
La-7               10  
P-38L             10
Typhoon IB      8
Fw 190D-9       8

               Kills In - Kills Of
P-51D            44 32
N1K2                1 27
P-38L               0 24
Spitfire Mk IX    0 22
Spitfire V       188 21
SeaFire             0 19
La-7                  0 17
F6F-5                0 16
F4U-1D           17 16
Yak-9U             0 12
Typhoon IB      0 11
P-47-D30         1 11
B-26B               0 10
Fw 190A-8       0 10

[flyingaround]

Originally posted by Shane
more than even if the la-7 pilot is only "average" and the other is a better pilot. at worst the la-7 will end up running.

I have taken to flying the 109g10 alot recently, and i LOVE fighting la7's.  I like the fact that I can turn with them, (have to really work the 109, but I do) climb with them, and am petty much as fast as them.  

To quote a guy in the MA tonight when an LA7 showed up with alt(me in g-10)...
"Give the lala to Lute.  He chews them up."  and indeed most of the time I do.  

Looking at last months stats, la7's amounted to 7% of my deaths, a percentage I do not find terribly high.  For argument sake though I was shot down by la7's more than any other plane.  Ship guns killed me 11% of the time, should we perk those?

I am not a Dora pilot like Urchin (great fights the other night btw, let's duel again soon) and favor the 109 over the FW's.  When I am in a dora, I find the la7's can pretty much smack me around in an aggressive fight.  I'll attribute that to the fact I so rarely fly FW's, and am not very familiar with their nuances.  In a G10 I have no real fear, and will turn w/ 'em at will, and in general win.

Dunno.  Leave 'em be.  They are no great threat, and as was prev. posted, most lala pilots will fly aggressive, giving me the chance to kill them quick, vs. most 109/190/P51 pilots are rather timid, and are much more prone to run/avoid a fight.

[jodgi]

Originally posted by Tilt
I was wondering what the out come would be if all those so vociferously agin the La7 were to fly it for a tour in an attempt to "rig" the usage numbers..........

Don't tempt me!

Maybe my decision to never fly the lala has been downright idiotic.

Also, I all but never fly the spit9, niki and P51D.

I've always thought that there has been too many of the abovementioned planes flying in the MA. That spells "boring" to me, I like seeing new faces. Everytime I see a P40 I automatically nurture respect for that pilot, why didn't he just resort to the planes that obviously are easier to kill and live in? So I think he's a good guy to give something rare to the MA.

People just don't value the fun in succeeding in crappy planes, maybe because they've never tasted such fun. What have you achieved by killing 5 guys in a lala/spit9/p51d/niki? Not much. What have you achieved by killing 3 guys in a Hurri1? Do you catch my drift? It seems most people don't see the value in an arena full of different planes.

Back to Tilt's idea...

I have to give this some thought, should I fly the lala to contribute to it's fall?

I probably can't bring myself to do it, I'm too fond of the "crappy" planes... seriously!

[Redd]

Originally posted by GScholz
I always attack the Lala's first. They are the most dangerous opponents, and if I'm to have a chance they must be engaged while I still have an advantage of alt or E.

They are obviously more dangerous to someone who flys a plane that will be both outturned and outrun by the LA-7 , and their are quite a few that fall into this category.

Most of the people that don't fear the lala probably fly a plane than can at least outturn it. eg Hellcat  , so I am in that category. A well flown lala will know how to give me grief , but fortunately very few are well flown

I do feel for guys like yourself that come up against a lala in say a 109 or 190 A and have very limited options against it  - your perspective is clearly different than mine.


I wouldn't like to see it perked tho -  I think, they are No 3 on my top 5 planes killed career stats,  keep  em comin  

[GScholz]

I found that I could easily outturn an F6F in the Lala, even at stall speeds with flaps out.

[Karnak]

Originally posted by Redd
They are obviously more dangerous to someone who flys a plane that will be both outturned and outrun by the LA-7 , and their are quite a few that fall into this category.

I am in this category.  The Mossie can neither turn with and La-7 or run from one.  If I meet one I either kill it very, very rapidly or I die.  I always go for the La-7 first.  This is one of the big reasons I plan on switching from the Mossie to the Ki-84.


Those who are posting their satats saying "Look at me!  I only got killed by an La-7 seven times last Tour!" are ignoring the La-7's frequent role as not the killer, but the plane than sets up the kill for the Spitfire or N1K2.  Once you have to turn to survive the La-7 then the Spits and N1Ks get you.

[Tilt]

Originally posted by jodgi

Back to Tilt's idea...

Please dont credit me with this idea:)

[Urchin]

Most planes faster than the Spit 9 are in the same category Karnak.  

In fact... lemme run down the list.  

Every 109/190, out turned by La7/ outrun by La7.  Except the E-4, that might be able to out-turn it.  Haven't tried it in AH2.

C202/205.. definately outran, probably out turned.

F4U- Outrun, turning is about the same but I'd give the low speed edge to the F4U (except once it gets slow the La7 levels out for 5 seconds, gets back to 300 mph, and E-fights)

F6F- see above.  

P-47.. not even close.  Easily out turned and outrun.  

P-51.  Outrun, see F4U for "out turned".

Ta-152.. see P-47

Typh- outrun, out-turned.  

Temp- outturned, itsy teeny bit faster.

Spit 14 - out run, but it does out turn the La7 (barely).  

So, if you fly something not on that list, you probably don't have a problem with the La-7.  If you do, you understand that the La-7 pretty much renders your plane impotent.

[Dead Man Flying]

Originally posted by Karnak
Those who are posting their satats saying "Look at me!  I only got killed by an La-7 seven times last Tour!" are ignoring the La-7's frequent role as not the killer, but the plane than sets up the kill for the Spitfire or N1K2.

And this justifies perking it on what grounds?

-- Todd/Leviathn

[Urchin]

I think it outta be perked base on pure performance, personally.

[mars01]

Those who are posting their satats saying "Look at me! I only got killed by an La-7 seven times last Tour!" are ignoring the La-7's frequent role as not the killer, but the plane than sets up the kill for the Spitfire or N1K2.

Uhh that would be me not "those".  If you are going to try and insult me the least you could do is have the balls to use my name.

Please.... where did you pull that out of, uh never mind I know.

I knew after reading my initial post that some one would incorrectly take it as "Look at my stats" as "Look at Me".  Give it a rest.  My stats aren't that great to even think I was bragging.  I was just making the point that the LA7 is less prevalent than the others in the MA.

Once you have to turn to survive the La-7 then the Spits and N1Ks get you.

This is stupid if I am out numbered more than 3 v 1 it doesn't matter what plane it is.  If it's an LA7 it doesn't make it any more difficult to die or survive.