Westland Whirlwind

[arkaler]

I'm wondering if anyone is interested in having this aircraft modeled in AH.

I'm sure this question has been brought up before, and perhaps beaten to death in another thread, so if it has, I apologize in advance (try not to flame me too much).

I've never seen it modeled in a sim. The four 20mm cannon would make it an effective bomber killer. Although it had short range, it was supposed to have pretty good high altitude capability, but the gross unreliability of the Peregrine engines made this a big problem, and the high landing speeds made it hard to operate out of small fields.
As with some other aircraft I can think of, this aircraft should do well in AH because most of the REAL LIFE problems with quality control and engine reliability would be a non-issue and the aircraft should perform as advertised because the DESIGN was pretty sound.
As a matter of fact, an upgraded version was manufactured with the Merlin engine eventually and called the Welkin, but by that time, the Mosquito and the Beaufighter was on line and there was no longer a need for the Westland.

Any thoughts?


Arkaler

[Replicant]

Although I'd love to see it, the Whirlwind only saw service with two sqaudrons and there weren't many of them built either.  It was effectively replaced by the Typhoon.

I'd sooner see a Beaufort or Beaufighter instead if we're asking for a RAF aircraft.

[Angus]

Definately the Whirlwind with no engine trouble could have some life in AH.
A nimble little twin with a nasty punch, also to be used in scenarios (early 1941)
However I secont Replicant on the Beafighter, - definately a plane who would see use in AH, especially the naval side.

[Karnak]

Why do you think that either the Whirlwind or Beaufighter will see use in AH?

They are both exclusively scenario and CT aircraft.

The Mosquito, which replaced the Beaufighter, gets less than 4,000 kills a tour despite being a far more survivable and capable aircraft.

That isn't to say that they don't have a place in AH, just that statements like "definately a plane who would see use in AH" are a false hope.

I would also favor the Beaufighter over the Whirlwind due to their relative historical roles.

[JB73]

is that the 4 gunned ostwind?

if so he11 yes we need it!!

would be a "blast" hehehehe

[Karnak]

JB73,

No, it is an early war British twin engined fighter with four 20mm Hispano Mk I cannon in the nose.

You're thinking of the Wirbelwind.  German spelling vs English spelling.

[arkaler]

Well, I wouldn't want to endorse a plane that would end up being a 'Hangar Queen',  and I aknowlege that there are other more prolific and deserving aircraft to be modeled, but to be fair, I've been reading some posts on this aircraft since I opened this topic and I notice that the logic goes something like this:
1. We should model other aircraft first.

Well, I guess you can say that for an indefinite period of time until you run out of other aircraft and then maybe we'll get to it eventually. If this is a plane that other people don't like for a specific reason, other than it wasn't very common, I think we should explore that.

2. It wouldn't see much use except in scenarios or wouldn't survive in the MA.

Lots of aircraft already modeled kind of fit that description already. Air combat is a brutally Darwinian environment as we all know. I'm curious how this plane would fare if it's well-known technical problems had been ironed out. Again it's not a BAD design so much as it was plagued with technical problems at a time when they were short on Merlin Engines and didn't have the time to devote to remedying the problems.

In short, I sort of see the Whirlwind as the 'RAF Fighter that might have been great' if things had technically and politically worked out differently.

I think HoHun really brought that point out well in his post nearly 3 years ago.

Regards,

Arkaler

[Angus]

We have many hangar Queens, and I belive that neither the Whirlwind nor the Beau would be the head Queens.
The Wirlwind was supposedly a delight in the air, about as fast as a 109E, with 4 Hizookas. Hmmm.
People ask for the P38F, would like to know how it stacks against the Whirlwind......
It's also a 300 mph + plane........


But I'd vote for the Beau though if it came to it.  

The Beau would be the only Torp carrying plane with some survivability, i.e. a nose Hizooka pack AND rockets for more strikes. A very good plane in the anti Shipping role.
Torpedo+Cannons+Rockets=Nothing in AH yet.
Top speed like 310-320 Mph anyway, is sort of ok....

[arkaler]

Well, heck, has anyone TRIED to carry a torp on a Whirlwind?

OK, I'm just kidding....

The Luftwobbles would complain, but maybe they could get the FW Falke and that would sort of even things out.


Arkaler

[Karnak]

Angus,

Mossie has four Hispanos in the nose, with nearly three times the ammo per gun, and is even faster than the Whirwind and yet sees no use.

The Beaufighter is slower than the Ki-67 is what you are saying.  The Mossie is faster at SL than the Beau is at it's best altitude.  At SL the Beau probably tops out at 270-280mph and to drop a torp in AH you need to be at <50ft and <125mph which would make any aircraft a sitting duck.  Torps are also more or less useless as currently handled in AH.  No plane will be usefull solely due to torp capability.

Hangar queens both.

That said the Beau would be very useful for scenarios and CT setups.

[Nashwan]

Mike Williams (MW) has some Beaufighter tests online at http://home.epix.net/~cap14/el290.html

The TF X, carrying a torp, did 297 mph at 200 ft. The VI, with engines rated at 7 lbs, did just over 300 mph at sea level.

With the increased rating of the Hercules, the Beaufighter could probably do around 310 at sea level in 1943 condition.

[Angus]

Now that would not be such a hangar queen...
Anyway, the mossie has some flaws in AH, such as non-ruggedness and the new funny spin. It's fast allright, but suffers in the ground attack role.
I'm positive the Beau would be used nicely in things like PT/LVT busting.

And for Scenarios it's a must!

[arkaler]

So the Whirlwind's a NO GO, right?

[Replicant]

Originally posted by Angus
Now that would not be such a hangar queen...
Anyway, the mossie has some flaws in AH, such as non-ruggedness and the new funny spin. It's fast allright, but suffers in the ground attack role.
I'm positive the Beau would be used nicely in things like PT/LVT busting.

And for Scenarios it's a must!

Plus if they did the Mk.21 instead of the TF.X then you'd have 4 x 20mm plus 4 x .50cal which would be a lot more powerful than what the Mosquito has.  (standard Beaufighter TF.X has 4 x 20mm & 6 x .303)

[Widewing]

Originally posted by arkaler



I've never seen it modeled in a sim. The four 20mm cannon would make it an effective bomber killer. Although it had short range, it was supposed to have pretty good high altitude capability, but the gross unreliability of the Peregrine engines made this a big problem, and the high landing speeds made it hard to operate out of small fields.
As with some other aircraft I can think of, this aircraft should do well in AH because most of the REAL LIFE problems with quality control and engine reliability would be a non-issue and the aircraft should perform as advertised because the DESIGN was pretty sound.
As a matter of fact, an upgraded version was manufactured with the Merlin engine eventually and called the Welkin, but by that time, the Mosquito and the Beaufighter was on line and there was no longer a need for the Westland.

Any thoughts?


Arkaler

A few thoughts....

Westland's Whirlwind would be of little use. It is 28 mph slower than the Mosquito FB.IV that we already have. Climb rate was horrible (well below 2k/min from sea level). In short, it would be little more than target practice for any fighter that came upon it. You could shoot up bombers, but it would take forever to climb high enough to reach them. You could use it for attack missions or attacking ground vehicles, but the Mossy is considerably superior at this already.

Someone mentioned the P-38F. In comparison to the P-38F, the Whirlwind is badly over-matched. The Whirlwind is about 40 mph slower, only offers 1/2 the rate of climb and acceleration.

As to the Welkin, it was not a success and had little in common with the Whirlwind (completely different airframes) other than some family resemblence. None saw service.

Either a later version of the Mossy or the Beaufighter would be preferable.

My regards,

Widewing