Author Topic: Westland Whirlwind  (Read 930 times)

Offline Angus

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 10057
Westland Whirlwind
« Reply #15 on: September 04, 2004, 12:30:27 PM »
Whirlwind= 300 mph + right?
4 Hizookas, right?
I've heard it was both a good turning and rolling plane, but I'd like to have some more info about it.
Wingloading? Power? Weight.

Anyway, what Widewing said:

"Either a later version of the Mossy or the Beaufighter would be preferable. "


I'll definately agree with ;)
It was very interesting to carry out the flight trials at Rechlin with the Spitfire and the Hurricane. Both types are very simple to fly compared to our aircraft, and childishly easy to take-off and land. (Werner Mölders)

Offline MOIL

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1639
      • http://www.ltar.org
Westland Whirlwind
« Reply #16 on: September 04, 2004, 08:23:02 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by JB73
is that the 4 gunned ostwind?

if so he11 yes we need it!!

would be a "blast" hehehehe


No JB,  he's talking about another A/C

This is the Wirbelwind................... .......Beautiful

Offline MiloMorai

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6864
Westland Whirlwind
« Reply #17 on: September 05, 2004, 05:01:35 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by JB73
is that the 4 gunned ostwind?

if so he11 yes we need it!!

would be a "blast" hehehehe


This is an Ostwind




Notice that it only has a single 37mm .

Offline arkaler

  • Zinc Member
  • *
  • Posts: 17
Westland Whirlwind
« Reply #18 on: September 05, 2004, 07:50:54 AM »
Whirlwind Update

Been doing a bit of scanning around and I have found another Sim that models the Whirlwind. I just read a review on this bird and the writer confirms a lot of data that is currently available about the plane.

The pictures are very nice. Eye Candy!

http://www.flightsim.com/cgi/kds?$=main/review/whirl.htm

With regard to the performance, I was basically wondering how much of it was due to the unreliabilty of the engine as opposed to the design limitation of the Engine - Airframe combination?

From reading the history of Rolls Royce Aircraft Engine development, I see that they had a number of engine in development.
I gather that the Peregrine was a developement and a hoped for replacement of the V-12 Kestrel Engine, which had powered a lot of the 1930's British Fighters. I suspect that the chaps at Rolls Royce, in an attempt to make an engine that perfromed as specified for the requirements of this new fighter, developed a powerplant that was 'overblown' , which is to say that it was red-lining at maximum rated power. You can expect some catastrophic failures when this happens.
The Supermarine R Engine that powered the Sea-racing plane, was to be developed into a 1500HP engine, since it was originally a developement of the Buzzard, which powered flying boats.
Then there was the S6 engine which eventually was developed into the Griffon engine.



This left a power gap in engine develpoment and the Merlin was developed as an interim powered engine to fulfill the power range from 700HP -  1500HP. It started as a private venture, the PV-12, because there was no money allocated for it's development. It was originally designed with an inovative evaporative cooling system and was first placed in the Hawker Hart. When the merits of the evaporative cooling system became suspect and supplies of Ethylene Glycol from America (Prestone) became available, the cooling system was redesigned.
In 1936 the Airministry called for designs of 2 new monoplane single engine fighters and both Supermarine and Hawker designed them around the PV-12 Engine, largely because they were available, not committed to other projects and fell within the design specifications. Once the 2 prototypes
were ready, the PV-12 was moved to the front burner of engine developement.
The Merlin had it's own reliability problems, and the Rolls Royce company developed a program to address this, by basically pulling engines at random from the line, and running them full tilt until they broke, then disassembling them, finding the parts that failed, and redesigning them. This method proved successful and eventually the Merlin became a very dependable engine.

Interestingly, the Vulture engine was 2 Peregrines bolted together at the base and sharing a common crankshaft. As you can well imagine, bolting 2 troublesome engines together did not fix the problem, but compounded it. 2 aircraft in development, the Hawker Tornado and the Avro Manchester bomber were cancelled because they were based on this powerplpant. These 2 aircraft lived on in other incarnations as the Hawker Typhoon and Temest (with the replacement of the engine with the Napier Sabre engine and the Avro Lancaster ( with a Merlin engine ).

This reprieve almost happened with the Whirlwind, when the need for a high altitude interceptor became apparent. The Welkin was developed around 2 Merlins and performed pretty well, but the Luftwaffe abandoned very high altitude bombing and the need evaporated. As a testbed, it was valuable for the developement of the pressurized cockpit.

So,  in conclusion, the Whirlwind was unreliable, short ranged, low ammo load, high landing speed, poor time to altitude statistics and not manueverable enough. The Welkin with iit's thick wing and low Mach number was 'too little, too late'.

Ah, well, it's kind of pretty to look at anyway.

Regards,


Arkaler

Offline arkaler

  • Zinc Member
  • *
  • Posts: 17
Westland Whirlwind
« Reply #19 on: September 05, 2004, 07:53:07 AM »
The link I posted doesn't work if you click it, but if you cut and paste it to your webbrowser box, it will take you there.

Nice pictures


Arkaler

Offline arkaler

  • Zinc Member
  • *
  • Posts: 17
Westland Whirlwind
« Reply #20 on: September 05, 2004, 08:10:19 AM »
OK,

Here's another link.


http://secure.simmarket.com/product_info.php?products_id=809


I'm not plugging this sim, I just like the pictures.

No flames please.


Arkaler

Offline Angus

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 10057
Westland Whirlwind
« Reply #21 on: September 05, 2004, 03:44:36 PM »
Whoaaaa, never realized that the Whirlwind looked that mean!
Really wonder abot dive and roll rate. Anybody???
It was very interesting to carry out the flight trials at Rechlin with the Spitfire and the Hurricane. Both types are very simple to fly compared to our aircraft, and childishly easy to take-off and land. (Werner Mölders)

Offline Replicant

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3567
Westland Whirlwind
« Reply #22 on: September 05, 2004, 04:33:13 PM »
Ever seen the flaps on the Whirlwind?  Go and check them out, quite different!
NEXX

Offline arkaler

  • Zinc Member
  • *
  • Posts: 17
Westland Whirlwind
« Reply #23 on: September 05, 2004, 09:29:44 PM »
Again,

I'm not sure what the corrected stats on the Whirlwind would be if the engines functioned according to specs without the failures or problems, but I would submit that there are other aircraft that we have already that did not function well in real life because of shortages, quality control issues, maintanence issues, etc.

And as to being outclassed, so are many other fighters and bombers that we have already. Are we only going to introduce uber planes from here on in?
Should we remove the P-40 because it was obsolete? What about the gamers that would like to see the Brewster Buffalo modeled? It served with distinction but noone wants it because it would get slaughtered in the MA. But the Finns used it with great effect against the Russian (after they pulled out the armor plate and a lot of other stuff they didn't need or want)

The Whirlwind is perhaps not a very competitive dogfighter, but it would be an excellent bomber killer. The reviewer recommends that we attack bombers using the same technique that the Flying Tigers used. Blast and dive away. The Whirlwind would be very suited to this with the central firing cannon with no convergence issues. That concentrated fire power in a central location....I suspect that you wouldn't really need to hose those guns for more than a 2 second burst.  A quick pass and sharp smack with some cannon and you're pulling away and past the bomber. Sounds workable to me.

So who would be interested and seeing this plane modeled?
It DID serve, it WAS used, and had Rolls Royce put as much effort into fixing the Peregrine as it did the Merlin by running the Heck out of them and taking them apart and finding out what broke and making it better, this plane might have served with some distinction.

Arkaler

Offline MiloMorai

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6864
Westland Whirlwind
« Reply #24 on: September 06, 2004, 05:37:06 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Replicant
Ever seen the flaps on the Whirlwind?  Go and check them out, quite different!


And those flaps were the main reason the engines overheated. When down, they blanked the exit from the radiators.(according to some)