Author Topic: School Chaos  (Read 295 times)

Offline Gixer

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« on: September 03, 2004, 11:47:13 PM »
Firsltly, sadening the loss of innocent life and injuries caused by recent terroist actions in Russia especially targeting and using childred is especially diplorable. I'm sure most people in the world are horrified at the events witnessed and feel terribly sorry for the people of Beslan.

Watching the events unfold one couldn't help but be suprised at the amount of chaos.

Why was there no medical teams or ambulances in large numbers standing by just incase events turned for the worst?

No immediate field hospital or staging area?

Why were the public only 100 to 200 meters away? They apparently had locals shooting at the militants causing more
confusion and public rushing into the school area once the shooting started. Which must of made the task for the military very difficult and helping some of the terroists to escape.

Just seems to be a large amount of disorganisation at all levels to have even the above basics taken care of.  Making an extremely difficult situation and outcome even more horrific esepcially for the people of Beslan.




...-Gixer

Offline B17Skull12

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« Reply #1 on: September 04, 2004, 03:19:57 AM »
it think it was in a rather remote area of russia and maybe they couldn't get them there.  as for the 100- 200 yard thing.  Since the collapse of Soviet Union i don't think the russian police force or military has quite recovered fully.
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Offline Chortle

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« Reply #2 on: September 04, 2004, 06:10:17 AM »
One of the many security/terrorist experts I heard yesterday said that the further away from Moscow you get, the worse the training/equipment/pay/organisation etc etc is for the special forces.

He said they'd just started to fly in the elite groups from Moscow but they hadn't had time to set up before it all went horribly wrong.

Offline -tronski-

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« Reply #3 on: September 04, 2004, 06:38:40 AM »
Lots of local militia/reservists involved in maintaining the perimeter, aparently couldn't cope once the shooting started and the public started to press the cordon.

And as Gixer said, once the perimeter broke down, the locals got involved in the fighting and that was the end of any command and control...
 
 Tronsky
God created Arrakis to train the faithful

Offline GRUNHERZ

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« Reply #4 on: September 04, 2004, 06:53:34 AM »
It was an odd thing for sure. I caught the whole event live on CNN that morning (US time) and it was strange seeing the mix of civilians lying about intermixed with what I would have to describe as some sort of irregular soldiers. I saw many with substantial beer (vodka?) bellies and a wild collection of uniforms, even civilian clothing and other equipment. The perimeter seemed particularly loose. One of the CNN people on scene openly commented that he had no clue whether a heavily armed man in civilian garb passing next to him was a soldier or a terrorist. All this only minutes after a nearby journalist fell to a gunshot wound. Very odd, certainly I never saw anything like it before, yet it was all, somehow, so appropriately Russian..

Offline anonymous

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« Reply #5 on: September 04, 2004, 08:48:19 AM »
speaking from experience wait for a real tactical study instead of news reports before questioning like "why" and "why not". the tactical commander did the best with what he had available im sure. nothing to motivate great performance like a bunch of kids being held by suicide bombers. i also heard that the russians had some of their tier one ct guys on the scene when the shooting finally started. one of them got killed saving a couple of the kids.

Offline Estel

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Re: School Chaos
« Reply #6 on: September 04, 2004, 09:18:46 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Gixer
Why was there no medical teams or ambulances in large numbers standing by just incase events turned for the worst?


There was a problem with road traffic (A lot of people, servicemen, APC and etc.). So ER crews were in 500-600 meters away from the site.

Quote

No immediate field hospital or staging area?


There were 2 field hospitals. 1 of them in 300 meters from school. Another one in 400-500 meters. All of them from Medical Service of 58-th army. Also there were an "Emercom" flying hospital in the city and another one SAR hospital, also in the city.

Quote

Why were the public only 100 to 200 meters away? They apparently had locals shooting at the militants causing more
confusion and public rushing into the school area once the shooting started. Which must of made the task for the military very difficult and helping some of the terroists to escape.


Try to put yourself into the place of that parents. In second, you can see on the video how are placed the buildings in the area. Most of people were covered by near standing buildings. In case of civilians with weapon I can think only one: They are from the local self-defence squads. Yes it's sad that they didn't work in contact with HQ. But you must understand that storm operation wasn't planned and it began accidently.

Quote

Just seems to be a large amount of disorganisation at all levels to have even the above basics taken care of.  Making an extremely difficult situation and outcome even more horrific esepcially for the people of Beslan.


Yes. Disorganisation had place. But. You must know, that Beslan is a little town in a little republic. There is no their own special forces teams and field hospitals, no special rescue and medical teams.

Offline mora

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« Reply #7 on: September 04, 2004, 09:19:30 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Very odd, certainly I never saw anything like it before, yet it was all, somehow, so appropriately Russian..


A commonly used negative phrase in finnnish language is "done like Russian".  It fits this situation perfectly.

Offline Estel

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« Reply #8 on: September 04, 2004, 09:26:43 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Chortle
One of the many security/terrorist experts I heard yesterday said that the further away from Moscow you get, the worse the training/equipment/pay/organisation etc etc is for the special forces.


North Osetia don't have it's own counter-terrorist group. Only special police forces like "OMON" and "SOBR". They have pretty good training and got a lot of skills at the war. But they don't have skills in hostages situations. It's a profit of "Alpha" and "Vympel" groups.

Quote

He said they'd just started to fly in the elite groups from Moscow but they hadn't had time to set up before it all went horribly wrong.


As was reported, "Vympel" group was involved into storm operation. 10 officers died paying their lives for childrens lives.

Offline lasersailor184

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« Reply #9 on: September 04, 2004, 10:10:06 AM »
There's only one song that I think fits to this situation...

Bodies...
Punishr - N.D.M. Back in the air.
8.) Lasersailor 73 "Will lead the impending revolution from his keyboard"

Offline anonymous

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« Reply #10 on: September 04, 2004, 10:35:46 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Estel
North Osetia don't have it's own counter-terrorist group. Only special police forces like "OMON" and "SOBR". They have pretty good training and got a lot of skills at the war. But they don't have skills in hostages situations. It's a profit of "Alpha" and "Vympel" groups.

 

As was reported, "Vympel" group was involved into storm operation. 10 officers died paying their lives for childrens lives.


do you know if theyve revealed the names of any of the ten vympys who were kia? if youve got the names could you let me know who they were? thanks.

Offline B17Skull12

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« Reply #11 on: September 04, 2004, 11:27:28 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by mora
A commonly used negative phrase in finnnish language is "done like Russian".  It fits this situation perfectly.
:rofl

 i would atleast expect a good security force in Volgograd.
« Last Edit: September 04, 2004, 01:53:03 PM by B17Skull12 »
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