AH Command Structure - Military or Horde Mentality????

[Beegerite]

I've been wondering why it is that no matter what side you fly on it seems somebody is always squeaking about not getting cooperation etc. etc.  I also wonder why if we're involved in a simulation of air combat why there is no official command structure in most squads nor a method of assigning rank based on game performance.  I've even wondered what language I would be speaking today if the troops under Ike, Patton,  and Bradley would have had the latitude of decision that we do online.  

There is ofcourse the mission editor but for some reason it's not getting the play I would think it should.  There is no private Rook, Bish and Nit forum to discuss overall strategy and common goals.  Seems that it's pretty loose and maybe by design but I wonder if this isn't what creates the non cohesiveness I hear so many complain about.  

Does a lack of structure keep those that what to re-enact more than simulate from enjoying the game as much?  Guess we all know that n real warfare there aren't any choices, either attack that base or "we" shoot your bellybutton at dawn.  Is this the type of structure which gains the best results or is a laid back style best?  What's the best way of providing for the needs of all players?  Should leaders be elected, appointed or should they arise to their position by driving a panzer through the palace gates? What are your thoughts on leading, being led, mission editor, formal structure vs. informal structure etc. etc.
Thanks
Beeg

[AKDejaVu]

Classic problems.  The old addage "too many generals" applies here to the nth degree.

AKDejaVu

[Animal]

The day a higher "ranking" ah player can give me orders, is the day I cancel my account.

[Hangtime]

We have an MA.. not a HA. Sadly. When we fly scenarios, you can listen to the Generals holler.. at everybody. Mayhem ensues there too; but sooner or later; everybody gets his toejam inna neat pile and when they follow the flight plans neat stuff happens.

We could use some more changes to the Mission Editor.. more on that in a new thread.

Hang

[Jimdandy]

To many chiefs and not enough Indians. I don't want anyone (just because of game rank) ordering me around. In a squad that's a different matter. You sign into a squad knowing their command structure. I don't think that any formal command structure needs to exist in the game above the squad level. Any thing above squad level command should only exist as some kind on incentive points for group cooperation. The best idea I've heard so far is perk points for joining a mission. If you have an incentive out there for people to submit missions and work together than maybe that would help. Don't forget that the other guy will be doing the same thing. So when the numbers are out of balance for one team it will still be an uneven battle. The satisfaction will have to come in knowing that if you all work as a team your getting points for it.

[LePaul]

Yup, good thread.

That's why I was bewildered when people flamed me for inquiring about LICENSING (i.e. Paying) for the ability to host our own games with 16 players or more.  

Our bunch up here would love to host a battle like "Maineiacs vs the Sister Theresa Fighter Squadron"  etc etc (take a variation of most any summer, drunken softball league).

The Main Arena has its moments when its great, but I know that my group of friends love to do the squad vs squad stuff, and you just cant do that on Main Arena.  You just always get that fella that wants to play it his way, screw teamwork, etc etc

And Animal is exactly right, people shouldnt be forced into participating.  MA is a big team FFA.

Again, great topic, be curious to see what suggestions (and flames) are voiced.

Paul

[Westy]

 The MA is everything. Not an "either or" kind of place nor is it anywhere to tell others how to fly when online.

 It's best if folks start or join up togther with like minded folks. And then these groups can seek each other out for combined operations.

 As soon as I hear someone starting hollering out on the country channel orders that someone must bring a goon/fleet/cap or that "Hey all you stupid XXXX's, we're going lose base/fleet/HQ whatever"  I squelch them.

-Westy

[This message has been edited by Westy (edited 01-08-2001).]

[Creamo]

How about you shutting the hell up Animal, and thats an order.

General Creamo

[LePaul]

LOL Westy

Yeap, i know exactly what you mean.  

hazed is famous for his great missions and i cant tell you how many times Ive heard that.  It never fails, as soon as wheels are up, someone whimpers "we are loosing xxbase".  So a few folks go there and discover its been bombed to hell for hours.  People love to yell "we are loosing" when they SHOULD say "Wow, we lost xx base"

Personally, Id like to host my own map and have room for a lot of people.  Can only host 8 and they wont allow more nodes...shrug...maybe someday

Paul

[Torque]

 

Originally posted by Animal:
The day a higher "ranking" ah player can give me orders, is the day I cancel my account.

Me too!

[llbm_MOL]

The MA is the MA. Only a few ever seem to want to get together and org a bit to take bases. Once they do get the ball rolling all the vulchers start to follow. Its a lot easier to get kills when somebody else is doing the hard work like killing ack and Vh's.

The mission editor is a GREAT thing. The problem is getting people to land inthe middle of a sorty to join up. You have to sit around for 1/2 an hour till your mission starts if you want to get anyone to fly it. If you could signup to a mission in flight it would be a nice thing. When the mission starts you get pulled out of the sky and plopped down on the field it starts from Would really suck if your fixin got kill some dude or in a good fight but I think it would help get the mission editor more use. Another thing I have noticed and am guilty of myself is not joing missions of guys I have never heard of or do not know well. I need to stop doing this as its a good way to get to know other virtual pilots I have tried to host some missions and talked maybe 5 pilots to join them. Sometimes I've got about 20 to joinn...i guess it just depends on who's on and who knows me.

LLB OUT!!!!!!!!!

[Saintaw]

We are the Knights... no need to run, you will be assimilated...

[wolf37]

hello all:

something else to look at when putting together a mission, how many pilots online at the time. you cant expect a lot of pilots to join a mission when there are only 20 to 30 online for your team. if all the pilots did that, you would loose more then you gained.
If you want to get a mission rolling, you have to do it when there are a lot of pilots that can join up with out trashing your defence. and another thing, you have to put together a smart mission. To many times I see somebody wanting to put together a mission to hit other teams HQ. its a great idea, as long as the city is down. If you have to fly for 20 to 30 mins to hit the HQ and the city is still up, well it just wont work. If your going to put together a mission, it has to be one that will and can help your team. I have seen people put missions together to hit a V field. and they want 10 to 20 pilots for the mission. at the same time, missions with bombers are not real good, the fighters will be at target 5 to 10 mins ahead of the bombers and the enemy will be up and fighting. so when your bombers show up, half or better of your fighters are already shot down. to plan a mission, you have to think how many pilots are online and can you pull away from what ever fights are going on at the time. you have to look at what planes are been used, and how fast will they get to target. and will they all get there at about the same time, except the c47, that should come in last. well, you all know most of this so I wont go on. But you just have to think when putting a mission together.

sorry this is not well written.



------------------
wolf37
C.O.
THUNDER BIRDS

[Fishu]

Hmm.. I wonder if every 'higher rank' people would be able to act as a commander.
For a long time I've seen alot of high scorers, who might be good players when it comes to scoring, but necessarily cant lead worth a crap... (in some first person shooters, this might be even more true  )

Organization would be nice though, instead of that daily basis 'find the biggest fight and go there' procedure.

In a war, you either do that boring job when your commander tells you or get shot as an alternative.
In flight simulators, people does like to just fly what they want to.. not fly some Ju88 for next hour if they're mostly some B-17 forts with laser cannons

well.. this is one thing that would be fun for one part of community, but not for another part
Usually too many wants to be leaders, theres little weakness.. and then that how good those leaders are is another thing.
I'd more likely fly unorganized than under command of some wannabe commander, but if it would be good person, I'd like to be part of it...

Maybe there should be created some sort of message board for list of operations per country?
Where would be bigger operations of the day announced and other strategies discussed.
Of course you could just announce it in these current AH discussion forums, but every country would be able to read and go "ahh, they're gonna attack sometime tomorrow"
people should also verify themself by email first before getting plans.. well, message board for each country would come handy here.
Theres some sort of idea for someone to refine...

*days trash talk EOF*

[Jimdandy]

I would like to add this to the statement below. Great generals win (even when out numbered) by surprises. That means not doing the obvious. If your wondering what I'm getting at just watch as a team begins to get backed into a corner. The cannon fodder conveyor starts. I don't mean at the point their down to 2 or 3 bases it starts long before that. Everyone wants to go where the "action" is. Then they start getting frustrated as the other team keeps pushing them back. So they get up again (without alt or any kind of advantage) and fly straight into the cannons. Into the valley rode the 500   I've seen it when a few smart players are out numbered and the slow, if not stop, the on slot by bombing the enemies rear. You've all seen what happens now when a CV is sunk that's setting right off your shore. Boom the threat is gone. People need to think beyond grabbing a C-hog and flying into the face of death. Grab a bomber and go bomb their fighter hangers. That will slow them down. Like I said hit the CV. You bomb the fighter hangers that their all taking off from and  they will lose 10% of there people do to impatients. There will be a few in the group that don't want to take the time now to fly any distance to get to the fight. Or you just slow them down enough that in that time more team mates come online. An other thing is capturing bases that are out of the obvious path of destruction. Get a few guys and go start taking bases that the enemy isn't defending. You start moving in from the flank and threaten their rear they will take notices and start defending rather than attacking.

 

Originally posted by Jimdandy:
To many chiefs and not enough Indians. I don't want anyone (just because of game rank) ordering me around. In a squad that's a different matter. You sign into a squad knowing their command structure. I don't think that any formal command structure needs to exist in the game above the squad level. Any thing above squad level command should only exist as some kind on incentive points for group cooperation. The best idea I've heard so far is perk points for joining a mission. If you have an incentive out there for people to submit missions and work together than maybe that would help. Don't forget that the other guy will be doing the same thing. So when the numbers are out of balance for one team it will still be an uneven battle. The satisfaction will have to come in knowing that if you all work as a team your getting points for it.