Things that might improve the ENY limiter

[Dead Man Flying]

Post your thoughts here -- actual concrete ideas about how to improve the implementation of an ENY-based plane limiter.  Saying stuff like "it sucks and should go" does not help.  Put it in a different thread.

My thoughts:

[list=1]

• Increase the minimum arena number before the limiter takes effect.  Increase it from 140 players to 250 or more.
• Set an upper ENY limit regardless of numbers.  DoKGonzo suggested that any planes above an ENY of 30 should remain untouched, and that sounds pretty reasonable.
• Decrease the amount of time between switching sides from six hours to two or three.  Or allow unlimited changing to any side with lower numbers to increase arena fluidity and produce balance.
[/list=1]

Any additions or revisions to this list?

-- Todd/Leviathn

[rabbidrabbit]

have the modifier based on a longer term average instead of instantaneous.

[Octavius]

Levi sucks and should go!  How's THAT!


While it rarely affects me since I fly early war crates, I'll contribute:

1)  "Localize" the limitations.  Instead of it being an arena wide limitation, limit the low ENY rides at the 'front' and 'second' line bases.  It probably requires some variation of code that detects the fluid front on a map.

If a player wants that La7 or P51D, make them ferry it a sector or two.

[Shane]

1.  I'd put the arena limit up to 350+   or change the disparity point to 35+%. The issue is often about localized odds as much as arena-wide odds.

   1a. If players fall below 100, make the eny kick in, if say,there's a 50% disparity to prevent off-hours raping while allowing these customers to retain the ability to fly the rides they want.

    1b. perhaps a floating disparity % point where the limiter kicks in? i.e., <100=50%  100-350 = 40% (or no limiter) 350> = 30%

2. do not include perk planes in the limiter.

3. i think 6 hrs is fine now, i honestly don't see why people should feel "compelled" to play chase the balance on a daily basis.

i think if the eny limiter is tweaked just right in some manner where frequent side changing isn't necessary to find the a suitable balance, eventually a few squads and individuals will make a semi-permanent switch and we'll reach the point where perhaps the limiter only kicks in occasionally.

right now it's a combination side-balance and plane-penalty to satisfy both the #'s and plane whiners with people being resistent to change and too much fluctuation as the arena tries to find its equilibruim. given time the current system would find it's balance, but i think HTC is risking losing some of his current customer base due to this new change on top of other game development things (but that's a seperate issue.)

[hitech]

Sugestion 2 was implemented from the begining, currently it is set at 49.

HiTech

[Dead Man Flying]

Originally posted by hitech
Sugestion 2 was implemented from the begining, currently it is set at 49.

Cool. I'd revise suggestion 2 to say that the current ENY upper limit of 49 should be reduced to 30 or 35.

-- Todd/Leviathn

[rabbidrabbit]

Originally posted by hitech
Sugestion 2 was implemented from the begining, currently it is set at 49.

HiTech

Any chance of basing the modifier on a longer term avg instead of instantaneous?

maybe the last weeks avg of each side determining the modifier for the next week?

[dedalos]

Originally posted by Dead Man Flying
Post your thoughts here -- actual concrete ideas about how to improve the implementation of an ENY-based plane limiter.  Saying stuff like "it sucks and should go" does not help.  Put it in a different thread.

My thoughts:

[list=1]

• Increase the minimum arena number before the limiter takes effect.  Increase it from 140 players to 250 or more.
• Set an upper ENY limit regardless of numbers.  DoKGonzo suggested that any planes above an ENY of 30 should remain untouched, and that sounds pretty reasonable.
• Decrease the amount of time between switching sides from six hours to two or three.  Or allow unlimited changing to any side with lower numbers to increase arena fluidity and produce balance.
[/list=1]

Any additions or revisions to this list?

-- Todd/Leviathn [/B]

1) yes
2) yes
3) yes

[dedalos]

Originally posted by Dead Man Flying
Cool. I'd revise suggestion 2 to say that the current ENY upper limit of 49 should be reduced to 30 or 35.

-- Todd/Leviathn

I'd say 14 or 19.  We don't want to totaly criple the other side.

[dedalos]

Originally posted by Octavius
Levi sucks and should go!  How's THAT!


While it rarely affects me since I fly early war crates, I'll contribute:

1)  "Localize" the limitations.  Instead of it being an arena wide limitation, limit the low ENY rides at the 'front' and 'second' line bases.  It probably requires some variation of code that detects the fluid front on a map.

If a player wants that La7 or P51D, make them ferry it a sector or two.

You can't fly an LA7 two sectors and hope to rtb, lol

[jaxxo]

How about limiting the number of low value eny planes to a set amount making only a certain number available in relation to player imbalance. That way at least they would be somewhat available even if its only say 10 la-7's. The lower the eny  for a certain plane type the less planes available. Also it would be nice to see factory bombardment affect plane availability and fuel. ord, etc. (somewhat related topic)

[Blammo]

Well, I have not suggestions for the ENY lock out because I don't like the system, but I have some alternatives.

1)  Perk every plane, but have a minimum number of players that have to be on a side and total number for the arena before it kicks in.  For instance, the P-51D would have a base perk cost of, say 5, but it would be 0 unless there were at least 150 +players on and a side had a 33% numbers advantage (just an example).  Before that point, the 51 would be perk free, but above that point it would cost.  As the numbers imbalance increased, so would the perk cost.  Say, there were 300 on and the side in question was at a 40% advantage, the Pony would be 10 perkies.

I know the number of perkies doesn't seem a lot, but it is something and over time would add up.  Also, we have the perky system anyway, why not use it instead of creating something new.

2)  Modified the current perk award system so that perkies award are much more drastically effected when your side has a numbers advantage.

3)  Award perkies to people switching sides (from a side with numbers advantage to one at a disadvantage).  The perkies awarded would be based on the difference in the side they come from and the side they go too.

4)  Time delay between flights.  If you crash, get shot down or in any way end up in the tower, make the player from a side with a numbers advantage have a delay before the can fly again.  For instance, have a base 5 minute delay that would kick in when there was a 20% advantage and have it go up with each percent increase in the advantage.

5)  Perk everything except the ENY 20+ planes (of course, the numer could be different).  That way you will always have to pay for the low ENY rides whether there is a balance issue or not.

6)  Regularly rotate the side that new players start as (this may already be happening, but I am not sure).  Do this on a weekly basis when the map is changed.

Now, personally, I don't think there needs to be anything to "force" a balance.  Things like that will even themselves out given enough time.  Short of a "rolling planeset" or nation (alliance) specific model for your available planes, I don't like anything that limits what you choose to fly (with the exception of the current perk point model).

Just my ramblings...

[ALF]

Originally posted by hitech
Sugestion 2 was implemented from the begining, currently it is set at 49.

HiTech

Thats a JOKE right?  Considering the GOON is ENY of 60 and at 50 you get the Hurri MX1 and Spit MX1...and dum dum deee....the uberride, Ju-87.  I would really hope for a more meaningful response to an issue causing so much tension.

[Dead Man Flying]

How about expanding the scope of limitations?  First, reduce the upper ENY for available planes from 49 to 29 or so.  However, after passing the threshold limiting planes below 29 ENY, the system then moves to ordinance.  First anything 1000 pounds and over goes.  Then all air-to-ground rockets and 500 pounders go, etc. until only 100 pound bombs remain.  These would always remain available unless ammo bunkers were destroyed.

This in the least slows the march of the horde and removes some of the fuel driving imbalanced behavior.  It's gamey, sure, but not any more so than simply limiting planes.  On the downside, I see strafing replacing the use of bombs, and the increased importance of strafing targets might actually encourage imbalanced numbers rather than discouraging them.

-- Todd/Leviathn

[simshell]

htc is right you are all trying to come up with ideas that do not effect you

making the ENY at 30 or 20 is just a idea so you can get your 2 line fighter so it does not bother you

while HTC eny at 49 is good because it gives you some thing to fly even if it was made before the war started  but still effects you and your team and if it gets that high you should only be able to fly those old 1940 planes to even playing field


but i do support a min amount of players for it to kick in!